Hello everybody, and welcome to Hold up the show where we dive deep inside your childhood nostalgia. Pull the movies from your past to see if they hold up. And on this the day of the last summer, blockbuster, I'm hold up with Andrew. It's just me. Just you. There's no Kyle. No Kyle. We filed a restraining order against him.

We didn't. It went through finally. Yeah, we can't really discuss the particulars, but it's for good reason. Kyle's off celebrating the fact that he's gonna be a father. Congratulations Kyle. Yeah. Congrats. . Just reproducing. That's what what we all do.

That's what we all have to do. Right. You know? Well, we are all animals at our, we're all, we're all creatures. But yes. Congrats Kyle and Erica. Yeah. Girl parents. He's out traveling with his lovely wife, so we thought we'd give him a break and we pick up the slack today. Oh yeah. We thought we would give him a break.

Yeah. But what's your favorite type of movie, Andrew? My favorite type of movie? . , I know the answer. It's a redemption story. Oh yeah. Today's the best redemption story ever. Right? Sure. Yeah. If that's what you really think. We're flashing back to season one. We watched Batman and Robin, as everyone in the audience knows one of the greatest works of arts and cinema that has ever been consumed by anyone.

Right. And the one that, , cost us a lot of time in therapy. Y Yeah. It was one of the worst movies we ever saw. It led to Kyle's downfall. It's part of the reason that we filed a restraining order. It's the reason he didn't wanna be on him today. , , it triggers him a great deal. So. , We thought, , . Batman and Robin and Joel Schumacher, they deserve a redemption story, right? So, yeah. Joel Schumaker is a consummate artist, a consummate pro. , He deserves any and all redemptions. So we're looking at Batman Forever. . , It was on purpose that we went with Batman and Robin last time.

Because Batman in forever was 95.

Correct? It was a little. Not ahead of our time, but we were both infants. I mean, I was not even three yet, or just turning three , when it came out, so. Right. And I was four years old, so, but I mean, I watched them like consecutively when I was age, like it, they were one of the same to me. Right. You know what I mean?

They were a big part of our childhood because it was treated as, you know, the one two punch, , the Joel Schumacher Batmans. Yeah. And that was our childhood Batman. Uh, we looked at Batman and Robin first because it was a little older and we remember it more vividly as kids. Yeah. Although I have a lot of staple memories from this movie, , when it released and therefore after, I just remember Jim Carrey, the Ridler, that green outfits, like I, that, that was what stuck out to me.

When I was younger, like I, I think I was obsessed with that villain, that character. , That was to me, like bigger than the Joker at the time. 'cause I hadn't really, , been truly exposed to, , the Joker because I don't even think I had watched Batman. , What's the one with Michael Keaton?

It's the one before this in like 89. Batman and Batman returns. It was a Batman Returns. Yeah. Yeah., I hadn't really watched those, those were a little bit more mature, I guess, when I was like five or six. So the Ridler was like, they were much darker. They were much darker. They were not for kids, but they're much better too.

But I didn't say that. , The Ridler was, a lot of things were much better than this one. Fascinating. , The obnoxious suits and Jim Carrey just being the, , eclectic, enthusiastic individual that he is. So, and this was at the point too, where his career was taking off? Oh, yeah, yeah.

, This wasn't peak Jim Carrey, but like, , he was a huge, he was becoming a superstar. I mean, didn't Ace Ventura come out a year before this or something like that? Yeah. So like, he was, I mean, he was big. Right. Dumb and Dumber was shortly after this. Mm-hmm. I believe so. Like this was, I mean, nineties was it peak Jim Carrey, or was it like on the crest to peak?

Jim Carrey. , It was, I think this was the time where his career started to really take off. Yeah. And, and like launch him into that next level. Because late nineties, early two thousands is where he was just on fire. He was in everything. Yeah. Internal, eternal sunshine of the Spotless Mind, man on the moon, moon showman on the moon, all that.

Yeah. That was probably like, what, like 99 to like 2007? . So this is the precursor to that. But like still, , he was taking more wacky roles in this early Yeah. Like he started taking serious roles after this. Yeah. It felt like, or at least like mixing them in a little bit more and really showing his skill as an actor.

'cause at this time he was just seen as like this. Comedy icon. I mean, it was like Ace Ventura, like Dumb and Dumber repeating itself over and over again. Right. And then this movie too is like, all righty then, , he had some of that like flare in this movie. Oh yeah. Like a psychopath. But he didn't really, character didn't fit as much or the Ridler character, but you know, I digress.

They just threw crazy Jim Carrey in there and said, go be fucking weird. And that's what he did. , Did you watch a lot of Batman stuff when you were a kid? Oh yeah. Batman was my thing. Batman was my favorite. Still is, honestly, but big comic book guy. I wouldn't say I'm that level of nerd. I honestly, I haven't read too, too many comic books if I'm, if I'm being honest.

Yeah. So, but I've, , explored , all Batman, , Batman and Robin, the cartoon Batman, beyond all that stuff. I. Loved it, like consumed it like it was fucking serial. It was not nothing I would turn down ever. Yeah. I, you know, I liked it, the Batman movies as a kid, but , I was a normal kid.

I loved superheroes, so No, I, I had all of the action figures, , from this Batman series. Yeah. Freeze ridler, , poison Ivy, like I had all of that stuff. So , do you feel like this movie, Staying Power lasted longer because there was a lot of merchandise around it? Yes. Yeah, because if, because it came out in 95 and every time I look at that or see that, I'm like, wow, it's older than I expected.

'cause I was always under the impression it was like 97 without like looking or knowing the facts. 'cause that just feels so Right. Spring of 95, baby. Yeah. 'Cause I had, I had the Sega Genesis game. Which ironically has voted one of the worst games of all time. , Had you, have you ever gotten to play it?

No. No. There is it, PTSD warning. For anyone out there listening to this that played this game, there's this opening sequence where you're playing as Batman and it's this 2D side scroller, but a beat 'em up to, and it's got that mortal kom kind of visualized graphics where they, did they, did they make this for the, game gear by chance?

I think so. Then I might have played it. I might have played it. So the Sega Genesis was by far, one of the worst versions of this game, one of the worst ports. The first segment. I could never beat. I had to get my brother to show me how, and he couldn't figure it out because. , If you played the sake of Genesis, there's only three buttons.

Yeah. Same thing as like an NES, you don't have like a lot of options for combos, but they use the start button for his grappling hook. And there's a segment where you see this just like little hole in the ceiling and you have to grapple up onto the next level of the roof and no one could figure it out.

They made video games so much more difficult for kiddos back then than they do now. And then on top of that, they added like voice clips from the movie that didn't fit in with what you were doing in the game. And they were so just staticky, you could not hear anything that they said. And , it opens with, , Tommy Lee Jones saying if the bat wants to play, we'll play as a se logo scrolls across the screen.

That's beautiful. Honestly. Yeah, I, yeah, it's terrible. , So I remember that. And then, , we talked about Burger King. Why not talk about McDonald's in this episode? Do you remember the cups? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We had like three of those. I had a couple myself. ,, I had at least four or five. , I will tell everybody back home, and I'll stand on this, I'll stand on this business.

Those cups were very well made. Yeah. They, were solid. They were solid. , I used those for breakfast like every single morning. Those are still in a lot of people's, like kitchens that was made from like plexiglass glass. Yeah. Yeah. And they were sculpted well, very, very well.

If someone came into your house and tried to rob you and started firing random nine millimeter bullets in the air, you can grab one of those cups, fend off the bullets, and bash that person in the skull with it and survived the night, I guarantee, or, or hold it in front of your face and it won't go through.

You're gonna get, , a reflection there from that bullet. That's how thick those fuckers were. Yeah. That was, it was thicker than anything Batman ever used in this movie. , But , they were good collectible cups. Like I wish I knew where those were. I'd keep 'em, I'd use 'em.

Yeah. , People still sell 'em. I bet they, I bet , those things are so durable. I bet you could drink coffee out of them and not, it wouldn't, nothing would happen. I'm not even kidding you. No melting, nothing. Those would be fine. But you do know that those are the type of cups you put in the microwave now and like heat up and then you touch it and you're like, get cancer.

Yeah. You've got like some sort of like colon cancer at that point. Within two days. Yeah. Yeah. Instant. Yeah. Instant terminal. I take 'em, I would stack those chemicals in , my cupboard. If I had 'em, I would do it. Well, and you mentioned earlier, , we talk, we're talking about the cups now, but you mentioned earlier about the Tim Burton Batmans.

Oh yeah. And we have to mention those before we dive into this movie too, because. Those movies started these movies. Yeah. And they tried to make it a continuation. Yeah. So Tim Burton, for anyone who doesn't know, was signed on to do Batman Forever, it was gonna be called Batman Continues. What a great name.

They should have stuck with that, honestly. Spoiler alert. , Yeah, I do like the name Batman Forever. I think that's, it's, it's a good name. It fits the nineties, like comic book style and it's okay. Yeah. , And so it also just fits the same like stigma of Batman movies like Batman Beyond Batman Begins, it fits that mantra, right?

Batman goes in for a dental exam. , It, yeah, it fits the mantra and , it worked at the time, but he originally signed on for that. One of the biggest reasons that Tim Burton left the project is because of what we just talked about, McDonald's. Really McDonald's saw the first two Batman, especially Batman returns.

The one with, you know, Danny DeVito playing the Penguin. Oh, I, I honestly, I want to go back and watch those. They're solid and you know they're different world. Yeah. He had a different take on Batman, but McDonald's was like, how can we market to kids if you're showing this grotesque world and people vomiting green slime, I guess green slime is off the table for Magna.

I don't know. They kind of pitched a fit over it and then a lot of other toy manufacturers kind of got involved and the studio was like, okay, well we need to go to a different direction so we can make money. Money. 'cause these are big money makers and their marketability is one thing that keeps them afloat and kept them afloat.

So, because you know you're just gonna make profit alone off kids toys. Yes. And we talked about this with the Batman and Robin movie. We talked about this with several other movies in the nineties. If toys were not being able to be manufactured out of these movies, they'd be fucked. Right? Yeah. They'd be losing shit left and right 'cause and there was a lot of these movies that weren't even kid appropriate making toys for kids.

Yeah. , Made a lot of money. And I, you know, you said it, you had some of the Batman Forever Action figures. I had almost all of the good ones. Yeah, exactly. And I had some too. I had the game, , I had the second Genesis game. Yeah. So we were part of , that culture that would buy Batman Forever stuff.

Or Batman Robin stuff. Batman, whatever it was comic book. It was easy for parents 'cause you knew that there's a certain level that you're getting out of it. You were the perfect Guinea pigs , for perfect Guinea pigs for their shit. So Tim Burton steps down, right? Yeah. , He's no longer gonna do Batman.

And then they appoint Joel Schumacher , to take his place. What, , how would you equate that in coaching, football transitions? Mm-hmm. You go from Tim Burton to Joel Schumacher. What is that like? Chase, give me a good analogy here, since we're close to the start of football season. Yeah. , I, you could go many different directions with that.

I almost would say, uh, since we were talking about Auburn earlier, I think you could do that from Gus Malison to Brian Harson. Oh, God, yes. That's perfect for all my Auburn friends. Like, you know what that means? So, , this is a bad change in terms of like artistic command and everything.

Everything, everything. Even like personality. Yeah. But. I will say this, they were originally talking about Joel Schumacher's idea for the script. 'cause the, a script was written by Burton, or at least Burton's team. , They were gonna get Marlon Waynes to play Robin.

I can't remember who. They were gonna have played the Ridler, , Marlon Waynes as Robin. Yeah. , Man, thank god Chris O'Donnell kept that. What else would he have done? What else would he be? Well, the Ridler was gonna have a rat too. I don't know if you knew that. Um, why? I don't Is that, is that something from the comic books?

Uh, ? No, tim Burton was like, Hey, no, if we're gonna do this, Ridler gets a rat. I want my vermin or not. Um, that's weird. Yeah. But like that tracks with Tim. Yeah. I feel like he has an affinity , for vermin and like underground creatures, but, yeah.

So with Tim Burton leaving the project, now he's producing, , so he still kinda, he kinda, I think he's the one that talked about Joel Schumacher being. The best choice for director. I don't know why.

, But Joel Schumacher started like casting after that. Michael Keaton left, obviously, and Joel landed on Val Kilmer because of his work in Tombstone. That was the main reason. Great movie. Val Kilmer was picked. He's great in Tombstone. It's funny 'cause there is a story where Val Kilmer says that he got the call to play Batman while he was in a bat cave filming the Ghost in the Darkness, which is a good movie as well.

Great. That's cool. That's poetic. Yeah. So you said you couldn't remember who Tim Burton or who they had originally had for uh, the Ridler? Well, it was, , Robin Williams, wasn't it? It was Robin Williams. Yeah. And he got fucked over twice. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken. , And they also, for Two-Face, it was supposed to be Billy D.

Williams. Yeah. Yeah. So Billy d actually played , Harvey Dent in, I think, was it Batman Returns or Batman that he played. So it was in one of those. Yeah. And he was signed on for three movies. Yeah. But I don't know what fell through. They bought him out 'cause they just didn't want to use him.

That's a shame. , 'Cause I remember him being decent. I remember liking him a bit more. Yeah. Maybe than Tommy Lee. They just, he just wanted Tommy Lee. Uh, so, so this cast, there's not a whole lot of like, how did we find the perfect Batman? He kind of knew who he wanted Yeah.

When he went through. And, , it's a shame that Robin Williams never got to play the Ridler. 'cause he's always wanted to do that. And I think he was quoted as saying that he got screwed over twice by Batman. , So it's always interesting. Oh, well, we got, well we got what we got dude. And we have to live with it.

And we have to, just accept it for what it is. We're not changing the past, so we're not, and speaking of the past, , you want some? No, I want some juicy numbers. You want some numbers, bro? I want some numbers from the past. All right, , do you want to, did this thing have a hefty budget?

Just to answer that question. First off, , I think this is a hefty number. Okay. A hundred mil for 95. Yeah, that's pretty, that's quite a bit. That's quite LI dunno, just for inflation and other things. That's like $6.3 billion. , I don't know what it is, but it's probably close to like, at least half a bill now, wouldn't you say?

Yeah, easily. Yeah. , But yeah, a hundred million dollar budget, , domestic opening. I bet it crushed that. I bet. Over time. But yeah, I mean, so domestic opening, which is what, like first week or whatever? Yeah, 52 million. So they got half that back, just like that instantaneously. Yeah. And then altogether domestic, , gross was , 184 million.

International was 152 million. And then worldwide, like 340 million. Nice 336 if you wanna beat, you know, particular, but 336 million altogether. Yeah. And it's probably made more on top of that with all the, the merchandising, merchandising and other shit. So yeah, they made it back. Yeah. That's why they green lit a sequel pretty quickly too.

They tripled it. Yeah. Definitely made a lot of money.. Um, we'll talk about some of , tension on set.

We'll talk about that. Oh, good. I want to know the dirty, juicy details, daddy, , we'll pick them up as we go. But, , Andrew, where does this movie start? , so the muy opens as two-faced former DEA Harvey Dent. It's holding, a hostage in a bank fault. I don't, do you remember the particulars of what happened here? No. I, I, and I wanted to catch you on, do you remember the opening sequence was the same as the other shoe?

, Schumacher it was similar. Uh, where it's like Batman putting on his like sexy rubber suit. Yep. Yep. You still got the nipples and whatnot. Yep. , But, that caught me off guard. I was like, yo, , we're doing this again. And then it just cuts to two face played by Tommy Lee Jones. And let me just say this about . Tommy Lee Jones's performance is two face. You'll never see him in another role like this. Never again. Like how would you describe it? Like he's just kind of manic, cartoonish, manic, cartoonish, , kind of slapstick in a way.

, It's very over the top, , and eccentric. , , it's not typical, , Tommy Lee, uh, not, not even close. You know, you think of this like good old boy ,, down south and, you know, soft spoken, but intelligent that this ain't Tommy Lee at all.

And how would you describe his attire in this fucking stupid, it's like half his suit is normal, and then the other half is kind of like this look, he looks like he, he's in a Blink 180 2 cover band. It is like off the wall, kind of like leopard pink, bright. Kind of crazy. Yeah. And his face is painted so poorly.

Like , the costume and makeup is not my favorite in this. Yeah. His face turned purple. Yeah. It's just, there's too much makeup. Right. It, there's too much makeup. And if anybody out there doesn't know Harvey Dent, the lawyer gets acid thrown in his eyes, which they briefly show you this in this movie for exposition.

Yeah. He gets acid thrown in his face, which eats away at half his face. He flips a coin. So paint his face like almost purple. Right. And his hair is purple. If he got acid in his eyes or his face, it would eat away at his hair. Right. It wouldn't just turn his hair purple. It's not hair dye.

So it di it made no sense seeing him and it's very distracting. But anyway, he's. He's basically robbing a bank, and this is where Batman gets the call. , He shows up though in this like hostage situation outside, and that's where we meet Nicole Kidman. Yes. And she is supposed to be a sex symbol immediately.

, Why is she on the front lines of this too? She's like a psychologist. She's a psychologist who is fascinated and wants to understand why Batman does what he does and who he is and why he is, she's fascinated more than just that because , she wants to fuck him. I mean, , she pretty much gets right to it.

, Gretchen, if you're listening, which you're not, , this is one of the worst female characters we've ever seen written on the show. Yeah. Truly. I'm gonna go ahead and then give you that one right there. Truly, , truly awful. , Don't think it even, . Passes the best Betal test. Not even close. I don't even think she sniffs another woman in this movie.

She has a lot of lines. Like it's, she's a pretty prevalent, , character in this. And , she's all about Batman. Giving these like sexual innuendo to each other and these jokes and all this. These wink, wink, non nod. Um, uh, commissioner Gordon is trying to prep Batman.

He is like two faces in there, bank being robbed. There's hostages. It's something that simple. , And Batman's like, okay. And he goes in and I think he fights a couple of the guards. And as he's doing that, they, he goes to the safe where one of the , bank security guards is tied up.

He's thrown in. He's got tape over his mouth. So Batman goes in to take the tape off and when he does, he's like, no, it's a trap. And then like, then he gets locked in the safe or whatever. Safe, safe gets locked . And this big fucking helicopter comes outta nowhere and pulls the, the entire safe.

It's a bunch of safe deposit boxes and he pulls the safe out of the, the damn bank and like it starts hovering over the city. And this security guard that is a hostage only exists to give us exposition. That's it. He's like, he's saying what? We all are thinking . So as they're flying up, you see this, this liquid start shooting into this safety deposit box.

I don't know. So like a, it's an acid. Yeah. It, it's gonna like burn 'em alive or whatever. You know how we know that Andrew? 'cause he says it's acid. And so it starts like piling into this safe as the helicopter's just like speeding through the city, somehow controlling this. Massive safe and I think Batman's doing like his best Spider-Man.

He is like hugging the corner of that safe. He's holding the guard up as holding, yep, as all this. I don't know how this acid got in there or how you would even rig a safe. To even propel that much acid, but he's trying to drown Batman and acid . And the guard just keeps giving exposition. He's like, my hearing aid as Batman pulls the hearing aid out of his like.

Ear. Yes. , , my shoes are melting. He's saying all kinds of weird shit. , Whatcha doing? Why are you putting the hearing aid up against the door? Are you using frequency to open the door? Honestly, that character was like, like a side character that you would expect from like, , Christmas vacation.

Like, I kept thinking of like the mailman who delivers, , the envelope on Christmas Eve. It was that prototype of an actor of a character. Yeah. Just literally there for like one small purpose, some tropes and then to move shit along. There's a, apparently a three hour cut of this, so I wonder how much more time we get with the security guard in this incident and people want the three hour cut.

So. He, he's doing all that. Batman uses the hearing aid and the frequency to blow , the door off , the safe, smart thinking. Yeah. Bruce Wayne is truly a genius. Truly a genius. Thank God that that security guard had a hearing aid. 'cause if not, and thank God Batman was there to, , put that in motion.

'cause otherwise he, you know, , he would've been mush. He would've mush meat baby. And then they, he gets up into the helicopter, right? Yeah. So now he's trying to steer the helicopter, which has a steering wheel. I just wanted to point that out.

Don't helicopters have some sort of like, this was a, like a BMW steering wheel. This was not, I bet they didn't film inside an actual cop then, you don't think? No, I'm thinking, I'm thinking it was a hundred million dollars budget. They didn't like pull a safe full of acid around the uh oh. , A hundred million dollars you can, you can make it look like they did that, but you know.

You gotta be cheap. You gotta be cheap when you have a hundred million dollars. Chase. Come on. , And so just speeding along here. They obviously get out of this, um, you find out two face is trying to capture Batman. Batman. It's, it was all he was, he's all the shit up to get him , to show up.

That's, and that's your pot two face wants revenge on Batman. Yeah, because he burned, , he burned his face even though , he blames them for, even though he didn't, he didn't do anything. He didn't do Jack shit. Yeah. So he blames him for the crime or something. I don't know. It's stupid. But that's how this movie is, this movie has no like, semblance of a plot at all.

No, we just gave it to you. It's just careless. Careless. And then when we get to the Riddler, it's gonna be more of the same. Yeah. , as they're flying the helicopter, did you notice all the, like the structures of the city, like, you know, we talk about like Batman from Tim Burton's perspective and it had this nice like gothic.

Architecture and it looked like another world almost. Right? This one, , it's similar to, uh, Batman , and Robin. Like it's a city of statues, a city of statues. It's , like drop sets on like a stage for like a play? Yeah. Like backgrounds. It's shallow up everything put elevated. Yeah.

There's no one lives. , It's almost like I almost said it was like that Star Wars world where everything's in the, like the clouds. Yes. It's so strange. It's, it's, it, I don't understand why they had to make it look like they were on, like, the set of like fucking candy land.

Like it's, let's literally like you're on a board game. Like , it's not real. There's nothing real about it. You got a hundred million to create a dark world of Batman and you settle with, with that. Like, it, it looks like everything's made a fucking cardboard too. Yeah. So, oh, it did not look real.

No., And then what happens? He basically saves the security guard and Two-Face gets away and Two-Face gets away. So this opening scene is a big waste of time. It was there to show the tension between Batty and Tutu.

That's what it was for. That's what we're gonna name this episode, batty and Tutu. , And there was one point too, where Bruce is like at the office at, in, Wayne Tech or whatever. Yeah. So shortly after that, yeah. This is where we're introduced to Edward Nma. Yeah. , He's going through Wayne Tech doing audits or whatever, and Edward Enigma or e Enigma?

Enigma. Ooh, wow. Great. Play on words there. Yeah. Very creative. And , as Bruce Wayne's walking through the tech part of this organization, Edward ends up trying to pitch his wares of this. Like he has this like unauthorized, , invention that he has created to manipulate people's brainwaves.

, Which, why would you share that? Like, that is, yeah. That, that just, that's like red flag right there, that's felony worthy. Like, no dude, we're, you're gonna get fucking fired and put in jail for, manipulating people's minds. Like, and Mr. Wayne or Batman, or Mr. Batman, if you will, , using his greatest detective mind doesn't pick up on the fact that this dude's trying to manipulate people's rain waves.

And one of, one of the selling points that, , Mr. Enigma, , made was that this manipulation, , channels, television programs into people's minds. Right. That's that's real. That's a real plot line. That's a real or real thing. Yeah. Yeah. , And he's introducing this to a tech company, so he's introducing this to a billionaire who pretty much should have fired him and called the police immediately.

But like, this is the biggest person in like Gotham City, AKA New York. That's like you pitching your idea for a pet security system to Bill Gates. Like, it's, it's he just not gonna work. He smiles and nods and like, walks by and is like, all right, make note of that fucking whack job. Yeah. , And that's what I, and that's what I'm saying is like, at this point, like, he's like, I'll have him fired.

And he is like, no, don't fire him. I was like, no, fire him, fire him. Call the police. Like, you confiscate all that shit. You can't do this. You're Batman. This is the reason that Harvey Dent got shit thrown in his eyes. Yeah. So , now I'm starting to root for Toothface on this one, but in the, in some segment of this.

, Jim Carrey plays this character pretty well at this point. Yeah, he does. He does. He's not quite annoying. He'll get annoying later, but the guy like step pulls him aside, I guess, is the manager of that. Fred Stickley. Yeah. Fred Stickley. , That's a well-known actor. Yeah. And he actually probably put the best performance in this movie.

I'm not even kidding, guys. , We gotta say his name because he is, he was the dad in Pineapple Express. He's been , in tons of shit. , Ed Begley Jr. , I noticed him right away. I wasn't sure if it was him, but turns out yes it was. You know, he was in Better Call Saul. Yep. , He's been a great working actor , for decades, but , he,

pretty much confronts NMA on his bullshit. And basically he is about to fire him. He does fire him. Yeah. He fires him. , And even though Bruce was like, don't do that, like, , he's got passion, which again shows Batman is not a great detective in this movie, , because he's just missing a bunch of red flags, as you said.

I mean, you got a dude who's created some weird fucking brainwave manipulation, , tool made of like crystals and like weirdly shaped glass. Like why would you want that fucking dude working at Wayne Tech? No. Get him gone. Get 'em gone yesterday. And speaking of working at Wayne Tech, so after all this, Bruce goes back to the bat layer from Wayne Tech.

Yes. And he uses a tunnel, and I was like, one who made the tunnel. , how did they not know that they were building a tunnel from Wayne Tech to this bat layer full of equipment, I guess, or this bat cave? , I'm sure there was no equipment in it, but you're tunneling across the city. Does anyone like wonder and think like when all this like expensive tech starts showing up and Batman starts showing up as a vigilante that these migrant workers weren't like, Hey, I mean that tunnel we built for that man and that billionaire, let's, be honest, there's a lot of indicators that into a bat cave bat man, there's bats, lot of indicators over the entire Batman lore that Bruce Wayne is Batman, but no one seems to want to question it, so we'll just.

No questioning here. I, , that really threw me off. I was like, that is a, that is an extraordinary construction job right there. . , There was less cost in building the streets of Atlanta than there were to build that tunnel.

That fucking tunnel. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but hey, he's a billionaire. He can do what he wants. He probably makes people sign NDAs, , let it be. And, uh, oh God, we, we, uh, we move on. So Fred Stickley fires nma, and , do you think Edward takes this? Uh, well Chase No, he doesn't. He doesn't. And , we're gonna skip a lot.

There's like a scene when Nicole Kidman in lingerie 'cause she wears lingerie everywhere she goes. Or just like, yeah. And, and I just dresses And I do wanna mention . Bruce Wayne himself is hitting on. Nicole Kidman's character, and they're kind of like casually dating, I guess you would say.

They're like going to events together and stuff, but she's like, I have another love. And it's Batman. Everybody. It's Batman. , But that will come into play later, but I do it will. , But Edward on the, he gets fired by Stickley. And , what does he do to him? What do you think, Andrew? He uses the brainwave machine.

He hooks him up to his brainwave machine and like melts his brain and sucks out the knowledge, I think because he puts a, like, he puts a dumb like childhood, like television. It's basically a giant green blender. Yeah. And it's just, and then he puts another stick on his head. It looks like a plunger. And the brainwaves leave the person that's watching it and Edward gets smarter, he puts on some stupid, like child like television show.

It's never explained. It's never explained. It's like the equivalent of like Teletubbies, but like even like more dull. And , that is what Robert, is that his name? Roberts? Yeah. No, Fred. Fred. Excuse me. Fred Stickley like sees and he just, he becomes a zombie essentially while whatever knowledge or capabilities he have a leave and go into Edward's brain.

And that's like, and it's 3D. Yeah. So it looks like he's just watching a 3D movie. This sounds really fucking stupid people because it is, because it is, it's dumb. And then , after his brain's been melted and he is like, oh, where, where am I? , Edward yts him out of the office building and just fucking kills him.

And he, he goes down some like giant like waterfall to like hundreds of feet below, and we assume he dies while he is like taped to his office here. Yeah. So like, where did the waterfall come from? , Yeah, like this, the city ordinance of this, like, again, the zoning here, the setup too of the set.

Like, it's just, just, it is just a little, he,, I think the, I think he's still falling to this day. Yes, yes. Um, but, and then somehow, like you see some of this happen on the security cam footage. So you see the security cam footage of Edward throwing him off the, like out of the, or throwing him out of the skyscraper and then.

. The cops are investigating the death. The next day they find a suicide note. Yeah. And they , and a riddle. Yeah, a riddle, which I don't remember what it fucking says. It was something stupid. They were all dumb. , But nma also, they looked cool though. I will say this as a kid, they did.

I thought the riddles looked pretty cool. Yes. They were like these cool little popup books. And it's like, once was a rat, always a rat. You're a rat, like, kind of thing like that. Yeah. , Again, it's , like they're like little mini pieces from like a board game. That's how I look at them. That's why I fucking look at this movie.

It's one giant board game with like an elaborate set. And every little nugget is like your little, like, , you know, , your character piece or , the piece that goes with your character piece. And, and this is the plot we're talking about here. Yeah. So now he's out for vengeance on Bruce Wayne because.

Well, Bruce didn't like his, uh, I didn't like his like mind because he thought it might be dangerous and possibly illegal and just morally corrupt. Go figure. Yeah, go figure Edward. , But yeah. So at this point I don't remember exactly. , And they checked the security camera and it just shows him running .

Out of the skyscraper and killing himself. Yeah. , He altered the security. Wow. Yeah. How did he do that? I don't know. Bullshit. I'm calling bullshit as Kyle would say. I don't how, like, I mean, that really broke me there, because back then it would've just been tape. Like Yeah, like VHS tape. So what did he do?

Go in and just alter , the fucking tape on, or just take the tape away? I, no, he altered it. Chase, he altered it and he, and he added audio and everything too. So it was him like crying and whining and threw himself out. And then like, Edward wrote him a suicide note. So the, the police are like, okay, well this is, did he use his brainwave manipulation, you know, invention to do that?

I honestly can't even remember. No, it was pretty cut and dry that he Okay. Because he took it off of him. He took it off of him and he was , like you let me go right now. And he is like, okay, will do. And let him go over the waterfall. , So yeah, it wasn't that, I don't know how he did it.

This is before ai. Well, whatever. , As I said in regards to Bruce's tunnels and other things, don't ask questions. , Don't do it. , We can, in this movie, there's, if you do that, you'll be spending three hours asking a bunch of questions. , But whatever, this moment is important because , this is when NMA really turns to the dark side.

This is when like he unleashes and truly becomes the evil villain that he is capable of, right? I mean, that was his big turning moment. , And I think after this is when, , Bruce receives a second riddle at Wayne Manor. Yes. , And then he's gotta go pick up Nicole Kidman. Go. He's gotta go consult Dr.

Meridian. , Who establishes whoever's leaving the riddles as a fucking wacko and obsessed with Bruce? Not, that's not her, , projecting her own thoughts or her own feelings about, , the situation. Right? Yeah. She's, she goes outta doctor mode at that point in time. She's like, he's a wacko. And I was like, I don't know very many psychologists that would just.

Ride someone off like that. Especially someone they're supposed to help. We gotta talk about this, the scene for a second. 'cause some of it's starting to come back to me. Remember? He breaks her door. Yeah. What was she doing? She was like kickboxing. Yes, that's right. She was kickboxing.

She was working out, she, , was in her office working out and grunting and stuff, and he thought that she was in danger. So he breaks her giant, like 20 foot wooden door, just pulls it off. The hinges made of full oak, too. Full oak. So I get that Bruce and Bat Boy are strong, but like he's not wearing a suit or his boots or anything.

He's in normal, like everyday attire. He's Batman's not a Superpowered superhero. Yeah, he's an everyday vigilante with a ga gad with a bunch of gadgets and money. He doesn't have some sort of strength that comes from mystifying rock. ,  , what's the joke about like, Batman, like where he is, like where people would get in.

Like arguments would say, who would win in a battle? Batman or Superman is like, how much prep time does Batman have? And that's pretty much it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. , and she is so . Anti Bruce Wayne, she just wants her Batman, but he eventually, he convinces her to go to the circus with him. There, there's some sort of like, , causation and like attraction between the two. It's called a billion dollars. That's, but , I think they don't, I'm sure that if you asked Joel Schumacher and whoever wrote this script, they'd probably be like, well, we wanted , to make it seem like it was a natural attraction because, , Bruce is Batman and like Dr.

Meridian subconsciously like, realizes that. Yeah. And you know, and that's probably true. Well, and two, she's a psychologist. Yeah. And there's an attraction from Batman because he is, at this point, Bruce Wayne sees all these like visions of his parents dying and bat a bat flying towards him. So he sees that a lot.

And, and it happens frequently in this movie in weird spots where he just like, ugh. And like he has this like flashback of his parents dying and all this other stuff. , They do actually do a good scene with it earlier, but Joel Schumacher wanted to do an origin story of Batman. They, the studio told him no.

They said, do a continuation of what Tim Burton did, even though it's not, , , and it kind of paved the way for Christopher Nolan's. Batman begins. He almost casted Christian Bale as Robin as a, apparently one of the rumors.

Really? Yeah. He must have been a young Christian BA too. It would've been. And now what? And I would, Christian Bell have gotten the Batman job later on. Thank God that didn't happen. Yeah. So who knows? , I do see some things in there that Joel Schumacher really wanted to do that I wish he would've gotten his way on 'cause it would've made the movie a little bit better.

I think an origin story of Batman at this point in time would've been a good start. But again, we got Batman begins out of it. So there's no reason to harbor up there. And any joel Schumacher joint script, like team script was never going to pan out.

And we'll say this in front of every, this is a hundred million dollar budget. There's probably like eight people. Writing that script and six producers probably looking over it and saying they want this and that and the other. There's probably so many hands in the spot. So much oversight. Yeah. That that's what leads to these movies ending up trash like this.

But anyway, uh, so, so they go to the circus, the, they go to the Hippodrome. An ode to the old New York Hippodrome, if you will, which I'm pretty sure where they filmed that was just like the Javit Center, like where it is now on like, , west Side Highway. But regardless, they go to the Hippodrome, which is the fucking circus.

Yeah. And it's a charity event or something, . I don't know, they kind of mentioned some stuff, but I just, again, , this is why I just don't love this. This Batman world. It's just yes, it's, it, they try to make it much like the comic books, but like, but yes and no. They do and they don't, they add a layer of like frivolity to it that just ruins it.

Right. And they don't adhere to , the origin of the comic books. It's like they skimmed them and they were like, okay, I think we got it. And then they just make up their own shit and did a little acid on the side too. Right. , And had to add in the 1960s Batman for like a comical effect.

But whatever we see the flying Graysons, Hey, who, what's the connection there? Chase? Why is that important? Who are the Graysons? Because we're getting the Robin Origin story. , Dick Grayson, right? Dick Grayson. That is Robin. In case you all didn't know, made by the great Chris O'Donnell, the great.

A great actor of our generation. Yeah. Truly. He, I mean, he's on par with Daniel Day Lewis. He's been on the show a lot. Yeah, he has. We mentioned him a lot. We have mentioned him. He'll never hear what we have to say. So Likeactually, I hope you're doing well, man. Yeah, I don't hate you.

Yeah, I don't, I put it out there. I'm sure you're a great dude. Really think you had a lot of promise. I did too. If it wasn't for these movies. So Yeah. They, they ruined you should have done, you should have done fucking comedies. We'll, say it right now. We blame Joel Schumacher. Yeah. Not you buddy. Not you.

So keep on keeping on hope you're out doing community theater or something, you know, keep up that fight. Don't let that fire burn out. He still made a lot of money off these movies. He made millions. Yeah. Made tens, millions. I don't feel that. Sorry for No, I don't either. Um, but , we see the family, the flying Graysons.

, This trapeze family. That is really good. They're very good. They're excellent. Um, this is kind of like, uh, it's not quite Cirque de Soleil, but like close. Yeah. ? Yeah. , It's got an old timey kind of carnival. I actually kinda like this vibe that we had here. Yeah. Because it, it was kinda , the closest to the Tim Burton Batmans that we were gonna get.

Yes. Yep. , But long story short, Two-Face shows up. 'cause what does he like to do? He likes to cause problems. So him and his Goonies, can we talk about his Goonies for a second? His henchman. And what they're dressed in and just how stupid their costumes were. That's so dumb. , They look like , they're not wearing like gimp suits, but it's kind of like what they're wearing and what two face is wearing and how they're dressed , , is exactly what a 50-year-old executive says that kids from the nineties would appreciate.

This is the same vision. It's like this like punk rock. It's like almost steam punk bullshit. Yeah. Steam punk, colorful, , bad to the bone. This, this is what bad kids grimy are, are attracted to. Yeah. Yeah. I watched three Nirvana music videos. I know. Yes. Yeah. It's like that kind Kurt Cobain's, my idol.

Yeah. Pearl Jam and the meat puppets. I got it. Sound garden is my life Anthem. Yeah. Let's fucking rock. So they're dressed like complete idiots, , and they're all hunched over for whatever reason. , They would never be able to fight. Then they all look like they're like five, seven to five 10 too.

Do you know? So, but they're probably like six four if they were punched. Yeah. , But there's a duality to 'em. They have like, it's like a leather body suit. Yeah. That goes, , over their entire face. It's like, it's like a, a like a, it's like a pillow. You're saying like a leather pillowcase over their fucking heads with a zipper up, up the middle with a red and black side.

And all this is happening, Tommy Lee Jones is raising a giant comically big bomb like think huge timer on it.

Like think bomber man bomb. Yeah. But like three times the size. , It's completely massive. But I love this part of the movie because, and not for the right reasons. I love this part of the movie because the way that they treat this bomb, they don't act like it has any weight to it on it.

Nope. Like it's a three megaton bomb. It's like the, it's, it is like as heavy as a nuclear, but it looks like it's like moving through water. Right. , It's like a beach ball. Yeah. Like they're throwing this shit around at one point, like during this whole scuffle, the Graysons are, they're trying to do their acrobatic act to get the bomb outta the building, which they're conveniently is a hatch at the very top of the roof.

And , Dick. Decides I'm gonna be the one to do it. And so they get the bomb to him as everyone's fighting. , Dick is able to get the bomb by carrying it over his head. His head yes. Through the hatch. Again, you know, he's also not a superpower superhero by any means. So, and every, and every landmark in this city is, , next to a big body of water. Because they throw it off the hatch. It just rolls in the water.

The water. Yeah, the water. I guess that's the Hudson baby. Yeah. Which again, , we talked about the Hudson being not very deep in our, infamous Godzilla, , episode. At that point where it exists in this world, it's not that deep.

It's like 10, 12 feet. So like, that's not gonna fucking do anything. It's gonna blow half that building apart. Yeah. You're, the water is going to be, , completely ensconced on either side. It's gonna create like a little tsunami. ,  , they make it look like nothing happens in this.

Like there's a little rumble once it explodes. Yeah. Fuck that. No, like a stone in a pond. It's a 12 foot deep river. Not even at that point. God eat shit. , But he comes back in and it, I think the wires got cut to , the family. And so he comes back in or at least looks through the hole and sees his family dead on the ground.

All feller death. Yeah. Which Bruce looks at him and has a flashback to seeing his parents on the ground dead. Yes. So it's like, we get it. Batman's parents died. We get it now. Dick Grayson's parents died and right before that happened, , Bruce like yelled out, I'm Batman. He announced that he was Batman.

Why did he do that? And why did no one hear, oh, why did no one hear it? Because Two-Face was like, if Batman shows up and gives himself over I, that's right. I won't detonate the bomb. And everyone was just so loud and yelling and screaming. But you would've thought that maybe Dr. Chase or someone next to him would've heard it and been like, oh shit, here he is.

Here's Batman. Here he is. Two-Face, don't destroy us all. He was like running towards Two-Face yelling it. Yeah. , And everybody was just so loud, which,, I guess in that situation, you may not believe he's Batman. 'cause , he, oh, you could be thinking, oh, he's just Batman. He's just saying that to.

To save us kind of thing. I don't know. Yeah. So well, whatever. So now we have an orphan. Yeah. , What, what does, , Bruce Bruce do? A fucking 30 5-year-old orphan. He takes in Dick Grayson as his Right. Like in orphan's. Son or brother? Son. Brother. I don't know. Al Alfred's, like you had the police said that they,, they could watch him for a few.

I was like, he is 35 years old. , And that family had life insurance. He'll be fine. They made it seem like he was like 17. I was like, this dude's not 17. Yeah. They made it seem like he was like eight. Yeah. And he has a motorcycle, which is his thing, and he has like a robin on it. And so like, we're getting those kind of weird, like little, like my family said, I'm like a robin.

'cause I was the best at flying around on the trap. I don't know exactly what , the story was, but something stupid like that. But he goes to live with Batman or Bruce Wayne for a little bit and he is just like this, , derelict like teenager, like rebellious, like, fuck you, fuck the world. I'm gonna do what I want.

I'm moving out. I'm not gonna be there. But I'm sad, but I'm sad mopey and I'm getting along with Alfred. Yeah. He seems to be the only one that cares about me. 'cause he made me a sandwich. What gets Dick to stay Chase? What kind of clicks? He goes into the garage with Bruce Wayne and he is like, Hey, it, and there's all these vintage motorcycles. 'cause that's the only hobby he has.

And he's like, oh, I wish somebody would stay around and fix 'em up. You know, and they could use a little work and maybe if someone fixed them up, they could keep one as a payment. Yeah. And so he ends up staying and then he steals the Batmobile that night too. Yeah. This is, this is, it doesn't, well I also wanna point this up.

So like, at two, like we go back to two faces layer, right? And this is when Ridler and two face meet up. 'cause Riddler's gonna pitch his idea to two face. And I know I'm skipping some scenes , here, we're skipping we're skipping like the, the creation of the ridler. We gotta talk about that little scene too, where, okay, let's, let's start there where he's in his little apartment or whatever.

So . The next scene, just moving along. The Ridler was really impressed with what Two-Face did, , at the Hippodrome, because he was seeing it on his, like little tv TV in his like apartment, his shitty ass apartment. What this weird, like, it's got like a, like a, like a greenish poop color all throughout.

It's like a typical like a hundred and th 30 square foot New York apartment that a serial killer, like lives in. Yeah. Like he's got all these weird gadgets and toys. He's got , the gen, like he's been living off macaroni and cheese in that apartment. Right. He's got a genie storyteller, you know, like bending, which takes the 45 square feet of that entire thing.

So that's like , his roommate essentially. Um, or he ask it a bunch of questions. , That's his like, living room, if you will. And you're seeing him like make a bunch of shit and Yeah, he's doing like craps and like cutting out different, , letters from magazines and like newspaper clippings to,, have a variance of, , text and whatnot.

And he is asking, , the genie, like what his name should be. I don't even remember the names that , he asked. It was , it was dumb, but Mr. Question I think was one of them. Yeah, that was one of 'em. , And then they eventually, , come to the Ridler and this is when the Ridler is born and he steps out and he, he meets two face in his layer.

He just kinda like walks in, which I love the fact that Drew Barrymore is a mistress in this. Yeah. That was, , one of her like, quite, quite surprising here. It wasn't, I guess you could say it was a cameo, right? Like, she was a name, wasn't she at this point? Yeah, she was. She did ET Yeah.

,, I don't know the Drew Barrymore timeline. I don't either believe it or not. So, but she, she was, , two faces, like sugar and spice. Yeah. It was his, his his light side, , his good side, if you will. 'cause he had one that was dressed in black and she, that would be spice, right? Yeah. Yeah.

, One of 'em was gonna be called leather and the other one, I think chain too. But they decided that also couldn't be marketed to children, so they changed to sugar. Is that a little too BD Smy? I think so. Oh. This is already a very horny Batman movie, so they should have just fucking, stuck with it.

But as long, and Nicole Kidman wasn't in this scene, so they had to like tone it down. , But yeah, so he shows up at the scene. I guess this is the point in time where we can talk about the tension between. , Tommy Lee Jones. , In, , Jim Carrey. , Yes. , , in an interview with Jim Carrey, he talked about.

Shortly before this movie started filming. Oh, you're talking about the real real tension. The real tension. Oh yeah. We, we gotta discuss this. So it was in the, it was a New York steakhouse, I think in Hell's Kitchen or something. I don't, I thought it was just a diner. But they, were they going to like it was a big dinner before the shooting began.

Yeah. And Tommy Lee Jones was at the table, and Jim Carrey was like, oh, I'm gonna walk over and say how much, you know, I respect his acting career and like, try to just like, introduce himself and, , all this stuff. And as he goes up to like try to shake Tommy Lee Jones' hand, Tommy Lee Jones says, I hate you, , and I can't stand your movies and your buffoonery.

Yep. Said that to him and that those, that's those word for word. Literally shoot him away. Yeah, shoot him off. So Jim Carrey was like taken back by that. He is like, why, why does he hate me so much? And there's rumors that, , I think Ace Ventura knocked one of Tommy Lee Jones' movies out of like a top spot or something.

So he harbored that because he thought that , the comedy was pretty lowbrow, which it's not wrong. But there, and then there's other people, like Val Kilmer said that they were fine on set together and they ended up becoming friends. I don't know, it is just, Jim Carrey did say that there was tension to begin

and sadly, Tommy Lee Jones is a bit of an asshole or so they say. Yeah. I mean, he comes off as difficult to work with. Which leads me to my next point. Val Kilmer on this set. Did not talk to Joel Schumacher for two weeks while they were filming. I, I would've done the same. Yeah. But also Val Kilmer is notoriously hard to work with.

Is he Actually, yeah. RIP though. Yeah, he's RIP. Right. I mean, I'm, but I'm sure that was just in his prime. And he was a, I mean, a lot of well-known actors are dicks, so a diva. Yeah. , He was difficult to work with and very demanding and arrogant is what a lot of people on set said. And, , he refused to talk to Joel Schumacher for two weeks on, on set.

So there was a lot of tension going on. I don't think I would've ever talked to Joel Schumacher, if I'm being honest. I would've completely disregarded his every thought and idea. So I get that. But like I made tombstone. I get that. But, nineties, so they different times.

So yeah. And back to it, the Ridler basically shows to face the power of his new invention. And so two faces, like, yeah, yeah. We'll work together and I'll, they call it the, , is it the enigma tech? Or, or the box, if you will, rolls right off the tongue. It's just a weird word. Yeah. I don't like saying it.

And then don't they go to E three and show it off or something like that? Yeah, yeah. They, they have some sort of like, , convention party thing, is it called E three? Like what is it? Yeah, it's just, , and Edward's starting to sell this product left and right too. Yeah. So, and he's like, everyone is getting it in their home, hooking it up to.

Yeah, whatever device. I guess it's their television. Yeah, their television to bring, you know, he's selling it as like a, a new way to experience television for the first, but really he's just draining their, their life. Their life and intelligence. Which again, not really explain how, or it doesn't even make him any different.

No. Or any stronger. He doesn't do anything with it. It's very strange. It's fucking bizarre.

, So to get all this money too, to help like the tech and. They start stealing diamonds so they can, yeah. They go to like museums and steal money and, , precious things such as diamonds and like art , and whatnot.

, So they just start like rampaging through, through museums and through , jewelry stores and shit like that. Yeah. And so, and that's how they end up, that's how he ends up selling it everywhere. And on top of that, like, I found it weird that , as this all this is going on Bruce Wayne is messing with Nicole Kidman these are big ass robberies, right?

He showed up for the first robbery with two face, but he never shows up for any of the other robberies. And there's like. I mean, we're talking massive like Museum of History, diamonds being like taken it's, and Batman doesn't do anything about that. Doesn't do shit, doesn't do. , And it's obviously two face and the Riddler Ridler and, , I wanna talk about the Riddler's appearance.

Like you could look at him and be like, oh, that, that does kind of look like Edward Nma. He changes his hair. He has spiked, like pink hair. The best I could even describe it as if Carrot Top did drag kind of. Yeah. Yeah. In a sense I would change the red to a, a true like magenta or ink though. , And, you know, it's not lengthy.

He's like spiky. , It looks like a military cut, like think like Lieutenant Surge from like Pokemon. . And you can tell that, like I said, I don't like the makeup in this.

You can see all the powder and shit on the Riddler's face when he is in the Ridler costume. He's got these green goggles on and then he has a body suit, a tight body suit. You can see Jim Carrey's junk at all times. And there's question marks, big black question marks all over it. And he's got a fucking cane, a gold cane that has the question mark at the top as the crest.

Yeah. And that's him. , I think that suit was modeled after the sixties, Batman, which Jim Carrey actually said that, that whoever. I need to look that up, but whoever played that role in the sixties, Batman. Yeah. And who played the Ridler. He was a big fan of, so he modeled a little bit of his performance after that.

That's fair. I just, I think , we should touch upon the fact that Christopher Nolan Batman movies ruined some of these hokey ones for us. 'cause when you go into these stark dark reality, , of the Nolan movies, I'm not even gonna give it that much credit because I think I can go back and watch the hokey Tim Burton movies and be fine.

I can watch the 60 show and be fine. I, that's fair. Watching this, this, it's just, this is a kick to the dick. Yeah. And like, I dunno, you're, you're gonna tell me that NMA puts his hair up every single time and gets in that jumpsuit and, . Braids his hair with hairspray ds it every fucking time just to go rub a bank.

Do you think that two face, two is like doing the stereotypical husband thing where he is like, I'm ready, and he is like waiting 45 minutes for him to be ready. I just imagine , he's got like a makeup station, like in like his bathroom. A vanity bar. Yeah. He's got a vanity bar and he has to attach everything and brush up , and touch up on his scars and add some like fake blood and, , different contours and colors.

He has to, for the color hue that he has on his fucking face, he's gotta touch it up every single time. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Yeah. , But anyway, back to E three. Yeah, it's, he's got, he's got an enigma tech business party that they're hosting and it's a big old shindi. There's a lot of people there. , Gordon's there, Batman or Bruce Wayne, excuse me, shows up, which was like.

My, my initial thought was like, you know that this is a disgraced employee who was fired. Why are you showing up at his events as if, you're chums or whatever. , And Edward uses this time to be like, Ooh, look it, I got you. I'm selling millions of these. I'm making a lot of money. You could have had this product.

He kind of does all that. And even though it's, again, Bruce Wayne knows it's fucking like illegal and like morally bankrupt. So like Right. Well, and Bruce knows the, what he's really using it for. Everyone else just think he's using it as like a interactive Yeah. Why didn't like a Quest three? Why wasn't this mentioned once by Bruce than what ever Never does.

He never does. He , never does. He never called the police the first time he could have stopped this entire movie. Yes. ,

we're all over the place at this point. But don't we get like Robin stealing the Batmobile? I think that already happened. Okay. So I could have sworn that on that. I was trying to figure out when that happened. That happened shortly after, , Bruce showed him his motorcycle collection because then he got comfortable at home and then he waited one night for Alfred to open.

The door too. The layer, which is right in like the living room. It's very obvious. Why don't you put that in a little more, in know, in discrete location is this has a normal doorknob and everything, but he like hops down, like off , the top banister, , on the second floor. And barrels his way in and , he gets into the bat layer and steals the fucking Batmobile, drives down, beats up some

roughnecks downtown who again look like, like crashes. It too, like he crashes it and then like he gets overtaken by , these goons and Batman shows up to save him. And they argue and he's like, you need a partner. And he's like, no I don't. Batman's like, fuck off. We're not doing this right now. Go home, kid.

Yeah. Even though you're 35 years old, go home kid. Uh, but yeah, that's an important part that I guess we, we missed. But it's easy to do so in this movie. 'cause honestly, if you can't tell, I'm pretty fuzzy about mo shit, , that we've talked about. But back to this stupid NMA tech business. Well, so whatever.

I wanted to also point out the fact that when he was in , the e we're calling it E three. I love that. So when he was in E three, Batman went and tr like Batman. It is E three though, right? It is E three for sure. It's something Enigma three. , So he goes into the back to try the brain. I told you he tried it on.

He tried that on knowing that he is extracting memories and information from this piece of technology. What, he didn't just do it willingly though. There was something, wasn't he coerced into it? No, he just kinda like, he kinda like, okay, he, people were coming in and out and he's like, I'm wondering about my, oh yeah, he sneaks into the back.

That's right. And he's, and he tries it. He might have beaten up a, a goon or two and then he puts it on. Right. And it's like, what the, like, you know what this is used for. . So now, and why would they make it difficult for him to even put that on if that's their main goal from the start?

Why wouldn't they? Yeah. Why wouldn't they just tie him down and put it on him? They could, but they, like, I will, and I will say this, they didn't know Bruce Wayne was Batman and that was their whole thing. That is, that is true. So they're able to get the information that Bruce Wayne is Batman from using this thing.

But again, Bruce should have known that again, he, he is the real villain in this movie. Batman is awful in this movie. Yeah, it may. He knew about this shit and he didn't fucking act upon it and, and we're all, he didn't even acknowledge it. And I'm gonna say this right now. Batman has us all fooled.

Everyone's rooting for a billionaire. , And I will not, I'll not stand for this root for Superman. He had no money. He grew up on a Kansas farm. I'm gonna blame Val Kilmer here. This just feels like it's partially his fault too. No offense, Val. I know you're not with us and I'm not trying to mock , your spirit, but like I am, you put in a bad shift on this movie.

You really didn't do a good job. Job. You didn't give a shit. He did not. Maybe you should have talked to Joel. I was like. Other two weeks, he wouldn't have had this Bruce Wayne's lack of, , effort. And, you know, uh, resolve and resolve and getting NMA arrested from the start parallels kilmer's acting job in this.

It's just lethargic and effortless. So knowing I don't mean effortless in a good way. No, it's, ugh, there's no effort. , And it's not an effortless watch to go to. So , they now know it's, it's Bruce Wayne. So now what do they do? They show up at Wayne Manor? Yeah, he has a, he has a moment. He, , he has Dr.

Chase with them and Nicole Kidman is. Starting to fall for Bruce Wayne instead of Batman because she, because Batman visited, heard, like the night prior, after that NMA tech thing, there was some shit that went down there, right? Like people got like held hostage or whatever. I, there was some sort of ordeal with, yeah, it's just basically basic stupid villain people causing shit.

There's random fight scenes in this movie that don't make sense. Don't make any sense. Yeah. But he a, after that night, that's when he went and visited, , Nicole Kidman, Dr. Chase. And that's just when she tells Batman, she's like, I think I'm in love with someone else. And Batman's , okay. And he acts hurt as if like he doesn't know who it is and he turns around smiles and walks off and I'm like, oh my God.

Did he smile? Yeah, he like gave a little smirk. Okay. I might've missed that. I thought he actually like acted pow. Well, everything in this movie is shot in such a dark light that you can't see anything. But again, fast forward to where we were. . Two-Face nma are looking through, I guess, the replay of their brain, his brainwave manipulation.

I don't, what do you even fucking call it? I, I all, I know the box. Yeah, the box is what he calls, but , he knows that Bruce Wayne has put it on and he sees stuff about a bat and like being afraid of a bat and other things. And they're like, who could that be? And this is where we get back to , and then they show up at Wayne Manor and they're like, , and Nicole Kidman's character's there.

And it's like, and they're having a tender moment. Yeah. He's like, she embraces, basically confessing her love to him. And he's probably about to confess that he's Batman. Yeah. Because he says that I've never told anyone this before or by Yes, yes, yes. The relationship between the Ridler and two phase. We we're, we're at this scene right now. We're at this scene. I mean, when they like celebrate and party together, they're getting like touchy feely, like they grab each other and like pull each other in, but like thrust their hips forward when they do that

they were. , They make their way , to Wayne Manor, and it's Halloween and there's trick or treaters. , And this is where they find they're in, but when they're outside the gate, they're like celebrating and like getting antsy. And like they've got hands around necks and like around waist. And again, they pull in at the hips.

There was some weird, , sexual tension between them. It made sense personally. They were both eccentric, weird, psychotic characters.

Yeah. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have, , second guessed, I honestly would've said it would made the movie better. , But this is where we get to the point where they overtake Wayne Manor, the goons rush in and the living room and knock over , the sofa that they're sitting on and they tie Alfred up and then , they fucking threw that old man in a closet.

They fucking tossed that 93-year-old man because I think he was pretty fucking old. He gets thrown around and then they shoot Bruce Wayne in the head. Yeah. Or was it his chest? I thought, I don't think he got shot in the head. I think he hit his head and he had that gash there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But he got shot. Well, they, the way that they shoot it, I always thought he got shot in the head as a kid, it looked like it's, and it's very aggressive scene.

I had to rewind and rewatch it again. I was like, did he just fucking die? What? What happens? Well, and I think they shot it that way to make you think you get shot in the head, but whatever. Cheap shit. But yeah. And then they blow up the bat cave and blow up all Batmans. Yeah. They're the ridler has those stupid grenades that , what were those, do you remember what they looked like?

They're like little question marks almost with like a ball and, yeah, he just threw 'em and they would just go and then explode. But yeah, he destroyed everything in , the bat cave. But , they knock him unconscious. He falls down the stairs. They don't take Bruce Wayne. They fucking take Dr.

Chase. Mm-hmm. W why don't they just take 'em? Both. , They have Alfred locked in a closet. They have, don't they take Dick Grayson too? , I think he gets away. Doesn't doesn't he get away? Yeah, he gets away because he, he ends up in the, he ends up in the the, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he does, he does get away.

But , yeah, so they just take her for whatever weird reason, which you'd think if you wanted to kill him. Right. Just kill him. He's unconscious. He's literally sitting there at the bottom of the ster wheel. You have a gun, which is weird. You can take him because you were using all this like cartoonish shit and then all of a sudden a fucking Beretta, non millimeter is brandished.

And then like Yeah. And also Nma Ridler and Two-Face had talked about how they're not gonna kill Batman. You got Ridler over in the corner, Two-Face in the corner, flipping his coin. He finally gets the coin, the head or whatever it is that he wants, and then he just up and shoots Batman. Like, why is he even doing that if they don't want to kill him just yet?

You know what's funny is there's a scene, 'cause like we don't talk enough about the comic book origins of anything, but here's one is two face flips a coin and he basically decides your fate on if it's heads or tails. Tails or, and doesn't he have a two-sided coin or so something? It's not, it's not even heads or tails.

It's like, especially it's a double sided coin. Double sided coin, yeah. Yeah. So it's always like rigged. So a lot of like comic book enthusiasts had a problem with him flipping the coin three times. He flips it three times, three times and looks at it, flips it again, looks at it again and flips it again, looks at it again, and everyone's like, oh, he's just flipping to get the desired outcome he wants.

And it's like, oh no, it's a two-sided coin. He's always gonna get the outcome. And so people are like, he would never flip it three times. But I did think it was kind of clever because in this scene he flips it three times to decide the fate of the three people like. Alfred Bruce Wayne and Nicole Kidman Chase.

Yeah. But all right, chase, this is, we're getting to that point where this is when I started to dose, the brain started blowing up, dude. Yeah. Well, nothing happens. So I mean, he wakes up. He wakes up. I remember this. And Alfred's sitting over his face. Alfred's fine somehow. How did Alfred get untangled? He got outta the closet.

Wouldn't it be great if he woke up and Alfred was just like malnourished and dead or like, like it was like three weeks later or like naked. He had like brain trauma injury and like was just walking around in his skis. His fucking Whitey tidies. That would've been a better movie. It would've been, it would've made more sense too.

But, but he wakes up and Alfred's found time to not only in between waking Bruce up, but getting a costume ready for Dick Grayson, who's now Robin, because he told the, the story about his family calling him or , whatever. I'm not backtracking anymore. So they, they, uh, they know where I don't, I don't even know how they know where Two-Face went.

Well, , they don't know where he is at. , But they know that they took Dr. Chase. Yeah, that's what Alfred says. But somehow they find where it is. Hey, it's got, it, it it ri the Ridler has, the, Riddler has this giant, oh, it's all the riddles. He, I remember this now. All the riddles he had gotten.

He basically, which is solved, he solves them all right away too, between Batman being dumb and the Riddler being dumb. Well, I mean the, and the one of them was like, I tell time and I have two hands and it's like, oh, it's a clock. Like, it was like stupid riddles like that. Like it didn't take much to solve.

No. So they just solved those and know where he is going. And now he accepts Robin and, oh, I need a sidekick, which backfires on him almost instantly because Robin gets kidnapped once they get there, which you would expect something like that. But it's this giant, so it's so funny. It's so funny that he is like, oh boy, oh howdy.

I get my chance. And, , they send him back to 1960s Robin when on this scene. 'cause they even throw in the kind of the Easter egg line. Yeah. Where he is like, holy rusted metal, Batman. It's like they're on this oil rig or something. It's, it's an oil rig, but it's also like riddler's like layer that he somehow constructed over the past, like month, just instantaneously.

It's now, , towering above the Hudson. Yeah, whatever. Um, we, there's so many structures like towering in the Hudson. Like every, every architecture is like built like single handedly in the hu whatever. All right. So you're gonna have to carry, because I don't remember, I remember Batman, like falling into some like gravel and being pulled out by Robin.

But that's about it. To get us, get us to the fucking end, Jay. Seriously, we're, we're, we've harbored long enough on this stupid bullshit. The final showdown here. Yeah. Where the Ridler has Batman , in the top of this oil rig and he's wearing a wonderful new suit now. It's now silver with black question marks and he looks absolutely absurd. He looks a little more fabulous. , Elton John costume change for the Ridler and he basically has Robin captured and Dr. Chase. And he is got them in these tubes, I guess these glass tubes hovering over the water. And he pulls a trap door to show that they're gonna fall to their icy death. Um, and he's given Batman a choice.

He's like, you can pick one your love interest or your partner, which is that case like, I was hoping that they both would die. But I didn't get an option. I would've let 'em both fall., And before he, he tells him to choose. He's like, I, I got a riddle for you. And he's like, um, what is blind?

But can also see, and he's like, or something like that. I can't even remember the line. It was really stupid. And he was like, oh, your blind is a bat. I got it. I need to start celebrating. And he's like, yeah. He pulls this like lever and these glasses go over his ox to blind him and he throws his batter ring that uses echo location and it hits the transmission of the box.

Is that what we're calling it? The E three box? Sure. Yeah. The Xbox. Yeah. , So great. So knocks the transmission out, which I don't understand. A why he had to shield his own eyes to throw the batter ring. B, why you just couldn't throw just a normal battering, why it had to be an echolocation battering and what that riddle had anything to do with knocking out the transmission to the box, which sends the ridler into a frenzy.

So he drops both of them. So Chase starts falling. So does Robin And Batman, of course, uses like his grappling hook, this crazy weird thing. And Robin uses his like gymnast powers to, they all get land on this like, I guess three foot wide steel beam, I guess it just happened to be, it be in the middle of the, the oil ring.

So they're, and they land perfectly on it. And then toothpaste shows up somehow. He's on another three, three foot wide beam, standing perfectly. And he's got a gun and he's like, I'm gonna kill Batman now. Which again, you had the chance to do that earlier. And so he's getting ready to pull the trigger and he's like, whoa, Harvey, don't, don't you need to flip a coin first?

He's like, oh yeah. So he goes to flip his coin and Batman takes a bunch of loose change that he just had. He just happened to have in his bat suits because he thought this through and knew that this scenario was going to happen. And he threw a bunch prep time, he threw a bunch of coins in the air. And so Harvey's losing his lucky coin, and he slips off the beam and falls to his death.

, And so they're saved and they get up to the ridler and , because the transmission's out, I guess it reversed the brainwaves. He's like, beaten basically. Yeah. And he's like sitting there and , he looks a mess. , And basically they capture him. And from, and my memory gets foggy here, but I do remember the movie ending with Dr.

Chase being part of the riddler's like psychiatric team. So she goes to AUM Asylum, they go to AUM Asylum. She goes up and talks to Dr. Burton. Who is Tim Burton, right? Yeah. And she's like, , I heard , the Ridler might know some things, might know who the bat Batman is. Batman is Batman, yeah. And she goes up to , the cage or whatever of the cell that , he's in.

And she's like, who's Batman? And he's like, you have to say please. And she's like, Edward. Please tell me who the Batman is. And he rises up and with his straight jacket, straight jacket. He's flapping , his arms. If there are wings. He's like, I'm the Batman. I'm the Batman. We talked about how he got his brain melted, right?

Yeah. And that wraps up Batman forever. Basically. Everyone's good. Robin goes back to Wayne Manor. , Bruce Wayne is now with Dr. Chase, and she does not know his secret identity, even though. She probably could figure it out if she just, I think she has an idea.

. And then he hands her that little , voodoo weird, fucking like, equivalent of like a dream weaver type toy. And it's like, I don't need this anymore. It's like basically like this ritual thing. Yeah. She gave it to him way back in their first meeting at her, , office or whatever.

It's irrelevant. But he gives that to her. They start making out, , it pans to Alfred who's like, grinning like a mad man. I was like, dude, that's disgusting. , Are you a voyeur Alfred? Like, what is, what, what's going on here? I, and I have a line that sums up this whole movie. Oh, let's hear it.

Uh, and it kind of goes back just a little bit, but there's a segment of time where Riddler is defeated and he goes, why can't I kill you? And I was like. I paused the movie at that point in time, I was like, you've had like 35 5 to kill him. You could have killed him when he was unconscious on his steps.

And I wish you would have because there wouldn't have been a sequel. So that wraps it up. That's it. Like there's no, there's a more talk about God, we took away too long. I mean, we usually always do, but God, that was a journey that was, it was a long movie. It was like two hours, right? It was like two and a half I thought.

So the question here 'cause I think the audience knows where we're going with this, but no is so I You remember it being good as a kid. Yeah, I remember liking 'em. I remember liking this one and Batman and Rob and I remember enjoying them and being entertained. I don't, remember it?

'cause I was a little too young when I wa first watched them and probably didn't watch 'em again. Maybe there was a reason for that, but I remember liking them. Yeah, for sure. I remember liking this one way more than Batman and Robin when I was a kid. I love this movie. Like, I couldn't figure out the sake of Genesis game, but it didn't stop me from playing.

It didn't stop me from playing with the action figures. See, , I liked them both. I think I liked Batman and Robin a bit more just because I loved Mr. Freeze. But I told you I love the Ridler too. Like the Ridler was, , an iconic villain for childhood me, and I love the style of this movie when I was a kid.

Yeah. This played into a kid's. Imagination. I could tell you, , , it feels like you're, , it feels like the set. It's a fucking board game. Like it's, it's not real. Yeah. So, yeah, I think, I think that plays into the childlike mind. So now that we've seen them both, which one's better? I think this one is, I think this one is definitely better.

I really do. , They're both bad. You're comparing, you know, two different types of piles of shit to pile of shit. Yeah. One's like cat shit and the other is like a big steaming pile of horse shit. They're both not great. They both smell, but the horse shit is a little bit more overpowering and that is Batman and Robin.

Whereas, , the other would be the cat shit. So this movie, most cats bury their shit too. Yeah, exactly. , And the smell goes away. And if you step in horseshit, it's your shoes ruined. So I hated both these movies so much. I don't even know if I could pick one to I It is to say that one is better. I is giving one of these movies too much credit.

I, but I considerably liked this one more. But if Tommy Lee Jones put a gun to my head and started flipping a coin, I would tell you Batman forever probably was a little bit better. Yeah. I, there, there were moments where , I thought Batman forever was okay, but damn it just, those moments did not last very long.

And the campiness and just bad writing and sexual tropes and just everything that we've discussed just so bad. Yeah, it ruins it there. But there were some moments, there were some cool moments. . There, there's not many that I can just really bring to mind. It's more of just like a feeling sitting there on the couch, okay, I'm all right with this.

Yeah. That happened far more often than Batman and Robin with this one. So, I agree. I don't, , it's not great. It's not good, but I think Batman and Robin is truly one of the worst movies I've ever seen in my life, and I don't think this one is quite that inflammatory. Right. So you're looking at like top 20 worst movies versus a top five worst movie?

Probably. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Or top four. Does it hold up? What do you think? It does not hold up. No, it does not hold up at all. Not even, it's not, it's not good. You know what's funny is a lot of people go back and nostalgically talk about this movie. And how they think it actually is a really good comic book movie, and it's misunderstood.

Yeah. It's not misunderstood. It's terrible. It was bad at the time. It's bad now. You know, if you're not a child, you're not gonna like it. That's bottom line. I don't know how to sum it up anymore than that. Yeah. Unless you're a six, 7-year-old who doesn't, you know, think Yeah. Just watches and enjoys and stares with bewilderment as if you were hooked up to the NMA box.

, I'll tell you what, I watched this movie and my brain wave slowed down. Yeah. , I fell asleep watching the final 40, 40 minutes or so. I was so bad. Yeah. It's just. It's a shame 'cause like you think of these movies from our childhood and they were fairly important in terms of made culture 300 and what, 76 million at the box office?

Yeah. Yeah. 300, 346 or 300 whatever. 36. But, , it had cultural relevance. , It was a big part of our little kid fascination. , It was a big part of why I fell in love with Batman, but the movie fucking sucks. It was so bad. It's just trash. It's just not good. Yeah. And there's no other way around it.

We tried though. We did, , we gave up two and a half hours to watch this shit. So do we want to, do we wanna hit an IMDB rating on this? Yeah, let's hear yours. I was trying to remember what I gave Batman and Robin. I think Batman and Rob was like in the twos for me. Yeah, it was low. I wouldn't, I'm gonna say 3.8, not knowing what I gave Batman and Robin, and if Batman and Robin.

I don't, I think Batman and Robin's lower than that, but Yeah, I think actually mine was in the twos. Yours and Kyle's were , like in the decimals. I'm not even kidding you. , You didn't want to give anything. I was gonna give this one , like a 4.3. Okay. Then 4.40 so high. It is pretty high, but it's still not good.

I don't even know. 3.8 seems very high to me. I just didn't know what I gave Batman, Robin. If I gave Batman Robin in the decimals. Yeah. You were like 0.5 or something. I give this one like a 2.3 or something like that. It was so bad. , But once you get below four, like it's like it all is hogwash.

I think the only thing that. Redeems it is knowing the campiness and understanding it's just a complete hoax show. , If you go into it with that mentality, you can get through it, but you're still not going to enjoy yourself. So, well. Andrew, do you wanna do the honors for this episode? Well, folks, , we dug into your childhood memories. We pulled out Batman forever. We didn't enjoy watching the two and a half hours that it was and decided that it doesn't hold up and don't go back and watch it. I'm so, just, just play with your action figures. , That's much more, , that's a much better use of your time than watching this.

Drink some coffee from that mug Yes. That you got from McDonald's. Yes. I'm so proud of you. That was really good. , Thank you. I knew what you say, but you put me on the spot and I kind of. I kind of got a little shitty there for a second, so that wraps it up for season four and summer blockbusters. We had a lot of fun reviewing those.

Catch us again in two weeks. We'll start our season five right off the bat. We've got some fall weather coming. We also got October around the corner. Gonna hit some horror movies and football. And football. You never know. Little Giants may show up in there. We'll see. Maybe you remember The Titans. We do have some other guest coming down the pipe, so there's a lot to look forward to with hold up in the future.

Please follow us on Andrew's favorite, TikTok and Instagram to find out what movie we are doing next. If you have a suggestion for a movie, we love suggestions. You can always shoot us a dm, a comment, or even go to our website and send in a request there. In the meantime, we hope you have a good rest of your summer and we'll see you in two weeks.