Hello everybody and welcome to Hold Up, the show where we dive deep inside your childhood nostalgia, pull the movies from your past out to see if they truly hold up. Today, we're investigating things,  with two great detectives themselves, Kyle and Andrew. Yo. Well,  pump the brakes.

Hold on, roll that back.  Two great? No, one magnificent and one very mediocre. That being you, the mediocre one, of course. , I'm surprised you even gave him mediocre. I thought you were gonna go with something better. You see, Andrew, and that's what I'm talking about. He's the mediocre one. You see, Andrew, you see, Andrew, and that's what I'm talking about, Andrew.

You see there. He got his degree from UTI, Universal Technical Institute in Forensic Science. You see what I'm saying? You see what I'm saying there, Andrew? We both agreed that you are the one who is, , below average, and we, hey, hey, we all. You can't prove that. 

We all know that Kyle got his degree from Grand Canyon University. It is GCU all the way. Oh yeah, sorry, the antelopes. Is that what they are? I don't even know. I thought they were an online institute only. They are,,  significantly online.  What is something that you've investigated Kyle?  I investigated when somebody put a note on Erica and I's door that, uh, that Oscar the small, small, small Maybe five pound decrepit ancient old tiny toy poodle was making so much noise that it was really irking our upstairs neighbors So I or I assume it was our upstairs neighbors.

I investigated the entire apartment floor and I brought the note with me I knocked on at least 15 people's door and I said, did you put this on my door? And they said, no, no, I didn't, or they weren't home or something. And  I went to our upstairs neighbors right above us and I said, did you put this on our door?

And he goes, he looks at it and he goes,  no, no. And I was like, he had to read it. To know that you didn't put it on our door?  Uh huh, so you put something on our door? He's like, no, I didn't put anything on your door. I was like, yeah, you little fucking dweeb. I'll just  roll you up and smoke you like a little  cigarette.

Twerp.  So I investigated that. There was no conclusive evidence to say one way or another, but I think it was him. That's pretty cool. Yeah, he probably got COVID, though.  Did you give it to him? Probably. Yeah, I figured. Great work. . The reason we talk about detective work is we watched The Great Mouse Detective, and this was probably one of our most requested films, I think.

Easily, and this is one that I went into and I was like, yeah, this is gonna be a trip down memory lane It is it is and  It was,  but it also wasn't. Well, before we get into it, Kyle, I want you to explain your energy levels today,  using detective terminology.

Well,  I would say when I came upon the scene,  I noticed there was ,  a broken seal  on the door into this moment. And when I arrived inside, I saw numerous signs of destruction. Struggle,  , a struggle for something to make sense of the world that we're in, but really all I saw was just  pools of blood,   everywhere on the floor, and a singular murder weapon, and that was  a phone with TikTok open on it. 

He's doing great That's that's that's the end. That's the end. You you really took me someplace there. That's the I was transported. Wow  He took you to brain damage is where he took you. I thought you were gonna bring up the little  plate the shattered plane  That's right. I don't want to die. Oh my god.

 So andrew i'm going to start with you Talk to me a little bit about your childhood experience with the great mouse detective. , I mean I watched it Quite a bit. It was in that Disney collection of like Robin Hood and like Peter Pan, The Rescuers, and Oliver and Company and you know, I could go on and on.

It was one of those cartoons that you had in your collection that you you picked out more than once or twice on any given weekday night. I remember enjoying it, remember it scaring me. , but I remember genuinely liking it and you know, you can, you might as well say loved it when I was a kid and it has that specific animated style that we all grew up with.

It's, it's, you know, it's from 86 or whatever, but it feels like it's from like the 60s or whatever.  , Kyle, tell me a little bit about your youthful experience with the great mouse detective. Other than being able to tell me your energy levels in detective terminology. You don't lose us this time. Well.

We've already lost the audience, it's gone. Well, much like Andrew, I remember this  one being scary. I remember being scared by this film. , maybe even overwhelmed to the point where it might cover my face at certain points. , I remember I felt bad for the little tiny mouse, the little girl mouse.

Olivia. Olivia. I felt, I was like, oh, she's got it so rough.  And I remember there being a lot more like mortal danger in this movie than there actually was. But there was still quite a bit of it. The stakes seemed pretty high. They were high, , but things just didn't  We'll get there. But there was some stuff that I found to be lacking.

And I don't recall that from when I watched as a child. Also the last time I did watch this I think might have been  When I was a kid, yeah, I don't think I've watched it outside of that. So this is a real good one to kind of really see. It's probably been about 20 something years. Yeah. I'm, I'm the same way.

I have not seen this movie since I was a kid and this is one that didn't watch a lot. Yeah. I think I saw this a, maybe a couple of times , we spoke about Don Bluth's films, that was kind of where I gravitated towards. If I was watching like animated movies, I was watching stuff like The Fox and the Hound.

I think that was my favorite. That was my favorite as a kid as well. And I, and I would watch that one, and I watched, you know, to Andrew's point, there was so many of these animated films at the time. Fievel Goes West was another one of my favorites.  So maybe one we get to later on down the road, but , I didn't recall much.

When  this got brought up, I know it's a fan favorite out there. I know a lot of people love this movie.  So I was just kind of going in with fresh new eyes because as a kid, I watched it when I was really young. I was probably like six, seven years old when I watched it.

We didn't even own it on VHS. This was one of the few that I just rented or yeah, I think rented or watched on TV maybe.  Like Disney Channel or something,   it didn't escape me. I knew of it and it's basically Sherlock Holmes.

Basically. Yeah, so it wasn't like  Foreign material. It's just not one that I  was like, hmm. Yeah. Oh Love that movie. Can't wait to watch it. Yeah But as it seems to be like that for a lot of people though Seems like a lot of people were like, deep, oh my god, you remember Great Mouse detective, right? Like it's a deep cut or something.

It's like, it's something else. It's just like, I mean, it is, it is, it is deep. It is kind of a deep cut, but  it's a little too deep and, and in a way that's, I didn't find  great, but.  It's definitely a heavy, heavy childhood movie. I'd be surprised how many people who recommended this to us have watched it since.

Recently. Yes. It had to have been, I don't even think they probably haven't even seen it as teenagers. Yeah, it's probably since they were like five or six or somewhere in that range, you know. Worst case like eight. Yeah, maybe yeah, maybe again when the memory is still, you know, and we're 90s kids But I remember growing up the Disney vault became a thing.

Yeah, does anybody remember that when You know, before streaming kids, , Disney used to re release their classics like The Great Mouse Detective, The Rescuers, Fox and the Hound, Cinderella, , Snow White. They would release them every six to eight months for a limited time. So you could rent them on this new VHS or buy them in the store, but they were gouged up.

I remember they were super expensive. Like 30 to 23. And there was like a two or three month window you could buy these movies and , if you passed that window, you couldn't get it again. Yeah. So unless you already owned it,  you weren't gonna see it. Yeah. Like, and then they didn't show them on, Disney didn't show these movies on TV a lot.

Cuz they  were   making  money in  their home market sales. Mm hmm. Yeah, I Honestly forgot this was a Disney movie until that until it came up at the beginning. I was like, oh damn, that's right  the reason a lot of people don't remember a lot of these movies or haven't seen them since they were kids was because  Disney made them rare so that they could sell them like Disney did the Buffalo Trace thing before Buffalo Trace did.

I will also say this movie came out when the Disney brand was not very strong. This was before the resurgence , with Michael Eisner. Right. It was, it was the 80s. This was 86 I think. This was before like Little mermaid and lion king and stuff like that. Disney was not a strong brand and they were not doing well Yeah, because they they fell off fell apart, especially after wall died.

Yeah And took a while to get back and their animation style had they'd kind of lost their animation style They kind of went to more like they were trying to fall into an early CG style animation So there was a period of time  because what was that? There was a movie It was the Black Cauldron wasn't it that  almost tank Disney for a while?

Yeah, but I actually I'd be I'd be curious to go back and watch that one I enjoyed those books and those movies when I was a kid. It was ahead of its time. Yes. It was dark  I know a lot of people love that movie now, as adults, so it'd be, that would be an interesting one to go back on.

, but it really hurt Disney for a while, and then, to your point, Michael Eisner comes around and puts a lot of money in the parks, and invests into the animation department. We get Lion King, and then that's all she wrote from there. And I will say the director of this movie, he did a lot of The big ones, such as, , Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Hercules, Princes and the Frog, Moana, , Ron Clements was his name.

He was a team of directors, but like, he was like, yeah. The guy, but he did quite a few over the course of 20, 30 years and big ones, huge ones for Disney. , so this one was, you know, no different in that regard, but I, I don't think it had the effect that some of these other movies we're talking about, , in terms of boosting Disney's presence and brand.

So, Andrew, while we're talking about the success of Disney, can we Let's talk about how successful this movie did. Okay, , it had a budget of about 14 million is which was  Pretty standard for an animated film at the time. Like I don't know how high or low that is for 86 animated film Yeah, but so 14 million  . It doesn't give me a weekly opening number. Were they not tracking it back? I don't think so. , and it's interesting because , this movie, they, you know, , talk about the, the gross total in two separate categories, original release.

And 92 re release, that's what you were talking about just a second ago. Yep. So, the original release was only about 25 million altogether. So, you know, , 11, 11 million more. Yeah, depending on marketing too, you may. Break even on that. And then the re release, which I think is what made it more popular for our era.

Which we're gonna dive into that. , was about 13 million. So altogether, you know, 30, 38 million in total. So they doubled it. Yeah. They, they, they made their movie. This is definitely before the time of, like, blockbuster animated films. You can, you can tell from this movie.  I wanted to see how that did, but I do want to talk, like, Kyle, I want to get your perspective on this.

How do you feel about us 90s kids growing up, but having a knowledge of all the 60s, 70s, 80s Disney movies?    When Toy Story came out, you know, that was like a big, that was a big thing.

That was when there was a monumental shift happening in film. , that's when we had like, you know, the heyday of like the literally primetime Tom Hanks. That's Daniel Day Lewis. This is like prime time for like movies shifting into a more  elevated  fashion. Like an elevated like platform, an elevated like, you know, media.

And I think that when it came to the animated films, like Toy Story, really like blew everybody out of the water. And it was,  I think again,  Great Mouse Detective. Spoiler, this is  pretty much just a kids movie. There's not a lot of like, adult stuff going on there. Aside from like, suggestive use of tobacco or alcohol.

Yeah. Toy Story incorporated, like, adult themes in there and things that kids could definitely latch onto, but so could their parents. So it made it more of, like, an event to take everybody together to that movie when it came to that. . And I think that like to live through that when we were growing up, , you know, you could go see those movies or go, you know, to the movie theater and maybe rent them.

But like before that.  There's, you know, what, Snow White, The Seven Dwarfs, there's Cinderella, there's like,  old Disney movies, but unless it's Fantasia, it's not really,  it's not really great, you know? 

Disney was down, like Andrew said, so all we had was kind of the classics before they got really bad. And then there were some spurts in the 80s, I think, where we got some good movies. I do think there's a lot of older animated Disney movies, because of the animation style alone. Are worth revisiting because we don't see that animation style.

It's almost like a relic in time. Yeah, , and Pixar changed the game a little bit, but  Disney wasn't releasing all these animated movies. Pixar wasn't really a thing at the time. So all we had was the classics to go back and watch. If we wanted to watch an animated kids movie, We had to watch those.

That's all there was. There was nothing else. , I'm not sure, but I think kids today are lost on the old, old Disney movies that we grew up with.  They're always gonna be timeless, like you're gonna see them at Disney World or when you go to the parks, right?

Like, you see , the merchandise and you see the characters come out. But, as far as like kids knowing these movies, unless their parents are showing them to you, they're not, they're not out there. Which is sad, because like, I, like I said, Fox and the Hound is  still up there. It's one of my favorite movies.

I watched it a couple years ago, and it still hit me. Yeah. Right here. They, they really knew how to do it, and Yeah. And Robin Hood's a great one. I watched that recently. Oh my, the music, every, I fucking love Robin Hood, man. And, and to Kyle's point, I think after The 60s and 70s of those movies they kind of like went to making just kids Tales and kind of like I think and that probably was the death of walt.

Yeah, you know, he had a good vision on  connecting animation through different ages And we, we lost that a little bit. Yeah, it just turned into just kid fodder. And I want to say something about this movie, you know, I said it wasn't on par with Little Mermaid or, you know, Lion King, yadda yadda. And that, while that's true, it is still really credited with keeping Disney afloat after The Black Cauldron.

Fiasco, like disney was in a shit spot This movie came out and kind of gave them some surface to you know live on and rely on so it did serve a purpose and it wasn't like a flop or Worthless movie by any means it did keep them afloat and did keep them from essentially going under  before we dive in, I do want to bring up some history, too. , so , I know I mentioned that this is basically Sherlock Holmes, but this movie is based on the book that , that Sherlock Holmes was based on.

It was based on the book that Sherlock Holmes was based on? Yeah. So it's kind of the precursor to Sherlock Holmes. , and we talk about the legacy of this film. This was the first.

Animated film to use computer generated images. Oh, interesting. So, so. That's, that's worth mentioning. In an animated form. So, and I think I know where it falls in. I think the clock tower scene, which we'll get into. I think that was full on computer CGI. Yeah. I mean, it was well done, but had to have been.

 But . Let's dive right in Kyle Where does this movie open up?  There's a first of all the score that we open up with the score in this movie is very good. Very good. Very good score  But we open up on , a clothed figure kind of walking down the street while also getting cuts to, , a toy maker making toys in his shop with his little daughter.

And these are mice, by the way. These are mice. Not humans. Not humans. Human characteristics and qualities.  , but they're mice. , so, , , basically this, this man is making toys.  And,  this clothed figure is, is like hobbling, hobbling, hobbling, and there's like this, you're going back and forth between this happy scene and this, this kind of ominous scene, it's back and forth and back and forth, and , the child is like talking with her dad and they're having a fun time, and  Something happens where we we cut over to like the window and there's just like this  Face full of teeth and like red eyes and it's horrify very scary as a child like to see that very scary,  it turns out to be a bat.

 The father hides the child, and the bat just takes the, the father away. Just, just, that's that  . Just kidnaps The father just kidnaps the father. We don't know why. And the bat is terrifying. And it's peg lagged. Yeah.   That was one of the main things I did remember.

Mm-hmm . I was like, oh yeah. The bat. And that scared the shit out of me as a child.  Yeah.  Out of this whole movie watching it back I can be like, okay, yeah that part definitely was still scary. . I mean this is for a young kid and then that scene was Was  awfully terrifying but like, you know, we get we get that scene , the dad's gone the little girl's like left on her own now And then we what do we get next andrew? , this plump mouse gets , very plump Very plump dropped off from A taxi, on the side of the street, and, you know, you learn that he is just getting back from war, or whatever, he was over in Afghanistan, and mind you, this is  1897, that is the actual date that  takes place.

A lot of movies don't do that. , and he's just walking down the street, and he hears someone whimpering in this, like, shoe, and he goes and inspects it, and it's young Olivia, , the girl whose father was abducted by the bat. Yeah. , And if you haven't picked up, like,  this character is pretty much Watson.

Yeah. Like, basically. Dawson. Watson. Dawson. Dawson. Yes, his name is Dawson. He gets, , he's talking about his time in the regimental army. And you're like, oh, okay. He's a veteran. Yeah, he's, this is Watson. He's a doctor. He's Watson. Okay, cool. We got that figured out. But he's just a David Q. Dawson, to be specific. 

Q. Quincy. So, then he meets the little girl, and the little girl's, like, holding up a newspaper article. Okay. Cool. Where she finds out that this detective named Basil,  I spelled Basil, Basil. Basil, if you say it, Basil. Basil. Basil. Just like that, Basil. Basil. And , he has solved. Basil of Baker Street.

Solved this big mystery. So she's looking for this detective so she can help find her father. , as simple as that  , and so he helps take her to Basil's house on baker street on baker street, which we didn't get the saxophone. I was very upset. We got a violin though Yeah, but it would be great if that violin had played baker street as like a like a good little  Some inconsistencies in the timeline there, but I agree with you it would have been nice just as  a fun little easter egg, you know, you don't have to like sync it up to time.

You're right. Like, yeah. You could use like a clarinet or something to make it even sound a little bit older. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, like he's just playing Baker Street on the Yeah. On the violin, it would have been funny. For sure. Well, , they get to the house and they find this sweet, sweet, I guess, maid, right?

 I guess she is Basil's maid, or, you know, , I guess that's what you'd call her position. I guess. She makes some food and His mom. Keeps things cleanly and tidy, so. At this point we can talk about the animation style. They're living in the, the human world. Yes.

, these little places that they're going in are built into the side of human buildings. So the scale is not like, oh,  we're in a mouse's world, . We're in a human world. Yes, and that's something that I think is a ding on this movie, in my opinion. I think there was a lot of like, missed opportunities with that.

It's not, it's not, to be fair, it's not pretending to be that kind of movie. But like, they could've done a better job with some of the, like, the, the, the criminal hangout is, is cute, but it's like, it's in an old beer keg. Yeah. Which is like, that's cool, but like, there's, it's not as creative as something like Ratatouille or something like that.

I, I still think it's kind of cool. Yeah. I, I like it. Yeah. I, I like the idea of like, what's happening in our, our shoes. Oh no, there's a missing little orphan mouse in it. It's like an entire world that we don't know that exists. That exists right under us. Yeah. , , we did that world a lot when we were kids.

Yeah. And now we don't do it at all. I guess it's kind of a nostalgia push for me. Like, Hey, I really would love to see movies do that. , you know, that's what made Osmosis Jones fun. What Little made Osmosis Jones Fun. Agreed. Mm-hmm  . , , I didn't hate the world and the animation here, I can't speak enough.

The animation is gorgeous. Yeah. Like, well done. I think some of it's rotoscoped,  um, maybe. , I can't speak for animation. We'll have a guest  later on down the road that can give us some animation insight. But Please, we need an education. We, we do. , but Andrew, so they go into this Baker Street house.

 They finally meet the detective. Now describe the detective for me. He can't be bothered. He is very much in his own head, you know. I don't even remember what he was talking about when he walked in, but he wouldn't shut up. And Olivia He was pointing a gun everywhere. He was literally pointing a firearm at people.

He's very full of himself. And, like, he doesn't really, it doesn't seem like he has the right to be full of himself at this juncture. He doesn't, he hasn't done anything to prove anything to us. No, he's smart. He feels like a heroin addict. He's very, he feels very autistic. He feels compulsive. Again, I can't keep,  Like he's just that word, but like he just is he's not a very likable kid.

He's aloof and he's an asshole. Yeah He's really mean. Yeah, he's kind of intelligent like cuz he's running this experiment on this gun And he shoots it into a bunch of pillows. Yeah, cuz that'll stop it You're not intelligent at all and then it turns out that the bullets don't match the ballistics don't match or whatever Yeah, it's all for nothing and he's distraught and can't be bothered so we go sits on his chair and starts playing his violin or ,  and he's telling them that he's trying to find this crime boss.

Yeah. Ratton? Is that his name? Rattigan. Rattigan, yeah. Rattigan! Rattigan! And then finally, I guess Olivia speaks up and talks about how her dad was abducted by this bat like creature or whatever. And then that piques his interest. Which is funny, it's not a bat like creature, it's legitimately just a bat.

It's just a bat, yeah. , a bat like creature. I say that because it has a fucking peg leg and a foot. So I don't know maimed a bat. Yeah But I don't know many bats that can can walk and crawl. But again, I don't know many mice that can do the same So yeah,   Yeah, and this piques his interest because he knows that this bat is like Rattigan's like henchman.

He's like, Oh, wait, you could be of use to me. Oh, now I'll listen to you. Now your, your woes are of importance to me because it might help me find this Rattigan creature. And, , you know, I don't, I guess it's just nemesis. It's like Moriarty. It's just his nemesis. And he knows Rattigan's up to like no good and he's going to like, yeah, evil guy.

And then he realizes he kind of does the only detective work he does in the whole scene is figure out that Dawson  served in the military. Yes. And he could tell by the stitching on his jacket sleeve because it was like cat intestine and it was something, you know, that's literally what he said. , I don't, he knew that he was in Afghanistan and knew that he was a surgeon and that was, that was it.

He was like, are you up for adventure? And the little girl. Was like, yeah, I am. And he's like, no, no, no, you can't go with us. No, you're, you're a fucking child. Stay put. She just goes anyway. Yeah, good for her. So now they're off, , to try to find  their dad, , and then I think that's where we're introduced to Rattigan, right?

Yes. So Kyle, how are we introduced to him?    Well, I think we see him when he comes into the toy makers shop that is now his pseudo shop because he's been abducted and he's coming in and he's making something.

It's, you don't know what he's making. He's making some kind of robot or something and , he's like telling him how it needs to be done in a certain time. And the toy maker goes,  I'm not, I'm just not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. And Radigan goes,  Yeah, you are. But he goes, no I'm not. And he pours, what does he do, pour coffee on top of it?

And it fucks the whole thing up. Yeah, and then he's like threatening his daughter. He's like, yeah, I'd hate to see your daughter have to come here too.  That'd suck, right? And, and at this point,  , it is clear that he is voiced by Vincent Price. Yes. Which is a horror legend, , , and Vincent Price does a really good job with his voice acting here.

 He has a very unique voice , which gives it a lot of  that kind of schlocky horror, too It's definitely very tacky horror. Yeah, like and it's not it's in a good way.

Yeah, it's not he's one of the it's one of the Shiny parts like over the top kind of villain, but like very flamboyant. I didn't really like the animation for Radigan I think if we were trying to make him a little bit more scary. He was a little too Like, I don't like a business leader. Yeah, yeah, he's kind of.

Why don't we talk about his physical description? Like, he's, he's, he's got a beard apparently. He's a fucking rat by the way. Yeah, but you're not supposed to call him a rat.  He'll feed you to his cat. Huge barrel chest, , big protruding nose,  nasty teeth, , You know, looked like  he had some small dwindly legs on top of that barrel chest.

He skips leg day. For sure. , He had like a toupee, right? Yeah, his hair looked like I think his hair just was coming over. It was just slicked back. And that's what he wanted you to think, Kyle. It was  Yeah, hair plugs. Yeah, but he's his just his animation. I just think for as scary as his character needs to be It just wasn't didn't didn't hit.

Yeah, he's supposed to be this like really demanding threat and he just kind of felt like a goofy He felt He's very flamboyant. Very flamboyant. Oh, I am Rattagin. Just like that. You do exactly what I say. What I say. It wasn't exactly like, no.  Upon looking at it. And Vincent Price always has that flamboyant,  kind of voice.

, cause he's always like, fiddle sticks.  He can't do anything super serious or like, demanding. But for, for the animation that they have for him, it matches up perfectly. . For the character that he needs to be. No, it doesn't they yeah, they had an idea of what they wanted and they they they pulled it off of what they wanted now Whether it could work better in another way is up for grabs there.

But yeah, so we're introduced to Radigan We know now that he does have her dad held captive to build him this Robotic thing that we're not sure what is  and then I can't recall what happens next Andrew 

 Rattigan has his little meeting with his henchman. Mm hmm. , I don't, I think that might be next. And that's where the song Rattigan comes in. Yeah, and he sings a little song. Oh Rattigan, oh Rattigan, la la la la la la.

And this, this kind of mirrored Batman and Robin to me. Where Freeze is like, dance, dance, and like, all of his like, little henchmen are dancing around. They don't really want to, , they're like, ahhh.  And then, I think one of them gets too drunk, right? Yeah, he's, he's been drinking heavily, and he draws them.

They're all mice, too, except for one turtle. There's a fucking turtle. Yeah, a shell less turtle. Yes.  , but he, he accidentally calls Rattigan a rat, and And that sets him off. That pisses him off, cause Don't call me a rat. He's not a rat. You know, he's one of, he's one of you, the mice. , and he, you know, at that point he, he snaps and he, he brings out his little bell.

And he, you know, Ding a ling a ling a ling And I, I, is it Fluffy? Is Fluffy or something, yeah. And that, that bell calls a big fat cat Named Fluffy who comes out of whatever alleyway. It was very much the Rancor in Star Wars for sure I mean, it was Star Wars came out before this to the return of the Jedi, right?

, there is a creature. I'm feeding you to my creature. You are, you're done.

 Yeah, he rings this bell Fluffy comes out and  he feeds  this mouse that calls rat again a rat and It dies in front of everyone.

Yeah, and And it's eaten alive and and I do think that there's like a good metaphor here in this scene because he doesn't want to be Called a rat. He wants to be called a mouse, but it's like what's the old saying like there's always a rat amongst us Yeah, and so like it does create that, 

there's always someone who wants to upset the norms. Yeah, sort of speak for their own personal gain, but I think we get his plan, right? During that scene. Yeah, he's trying to,  he's trying to infiltrate Buckingham Palace, so he can become the supreme ruler of all mouse dom, is what he said.

The supreme mouse ruler. The mouse queen, I think is what she was.  I mean, honestly. , so that's, that's his plan now and it's starting to kind of come together. And then Kyle, what happens after that?  Well, , we go back to,  to Basil  and they're trying to figure out how to, they're, they're investigating something, but then they're interrupted,  right? 

Don't they find that  bat's hat? The bat hat? Don't they find the bat hat? I think they find it, and then they go to investigate it. And they give it to the dog. Yeah. Oh, that's right, they give it to the dog, and the dog sniffs, and they go to the place where it was last known. Cause, like, like Radigan , he has a relationship with Fluffy, ,  basil has a relationship with the dog.

Mm-hmm . It's a little yin and yang there, which the dog also, I think me and Andrew talked about this, the dog also mirrored copper. Mm-hmm . From the fox and the hound. It looked a little similar. Yeah. There was a, there was a lot of these characters that kind of looked similar or had similar moments, and I know Disney likes to do that with Easter Eggs.

Because there was one scene in this, which we'll get to, but Dumbo is just full on in it. Oh. But, , yeah, so like, they're using the dog. What's that dog's name? I, I don't. Toby. Toby. Toby. Toby. Toby What? Aby. Good name for a Toby dog. So they, , they're trying to rail, , like wrangle the dog in. The dog hates.

Dawson Dawon. Dawson cannot stand. There's no reason why he hates him. It's just  Dawson's the one he should like, he shouldn't like basil. , but  he tries to use the hat to find like the scent of  Fi. Toby Toby's trying to find the scent of Fidget is the name. Yeah. Which fidget is the name of the, the bat.

Bat henchman. The Bat Creature. With the low leg, no wing, , , doesn't Toby like He leads them to like where the bat is living at. Toy shop. Yeah, and he, they go inside And they find Now we'll say this toy shop is where I get like a lot of the nightmare fuel Yes, because the toys that they clowns and dolls that are just really creepy looking and they're also like the old early 1900s 1800s like yeah, really like grotesque features very very like vaudevillian, like,  not fun to look at.

Painted faces. Probably in lead paint, like, you know, just Porcelain. Porcelain, yeah, just nasty, like, really weird looking And there's this, like Jack in the box and, like, dolls and clown shit. And there's, , these toys where you pull something and it's, like, a carousel that goes around and around. That's where we see, , a Dumbo carousel.

, and then there's one point where they have this little girl porcelain doll with a smile on her face and she just Falls down and her porcelain head just and her little eyes kind of like rolls to the top of her head And it's it's a it's pretty Yeah, as a child, that's probably not a fun scene to see as an adult It's just it was still eerie, but it was weird, but it wasn't it wasn't like oh I did not live up to that childhood feeling it didn't but I thought it was still fun.

Yeah, sure It was I thought it was one of the better scenes In the movie, like it caught my attention, , where some of the scenes, I kind of just like , blend together a little bit. Yes. , but yeah, they, they catch up to the bat creature, and then I think he just kidnaps Olivia, right? He distracts her, , he gets a bubble machine going, and she kind of  Turns a corner, you know, turns her back on, you know, Basil and Dawson, even though Dawson's, you know, been tasked to keep an eye on her at all times.

And follows the bubbles and kind of goes up to this little baby carriage, this toy baby carriage. That's right. And it finds that Fidget is, you know, in there, ready to pounce. Yep. And grabs her and stuffs her in a bag. Pretty scary. Yeah. Yeah. And just starts running away. So, we did this with Jingo all the way.

How about Fidget's felonies right now? He's got breaking and entering.  Oh, man. Kidnapping, , holding someone against their will. Abuse of a child. I mean, he is the henchman of a super criminal. Assault. Criminal of the underworld, so like,  you know, his rap sheet should be long.

Right. You know? Definitely some drug charges in there for sure. The way he speaks that Yeah, he's  very much   He's into drugs. He's kind of a Gremlin like bat. Like he reminds me of stripe from the Gremlins Yep. I don't those movies were probably made around the same time. So I don't know what Gremlins was 85  Something like that.

Yeah, so they're probably no relation there, but they're it's a very similar character I'm kind of like the bat from Anastasia a little bit, too  But after she's kidnapped she's brought back to well he He gets away fidget gets away basil and Dawson can't get to him But worst detective in the world But he's that important a little piece that we we need to mention is we find fidgets like to do list  That is given to him from Rattigan, and it's like, you know, abduct the girl.

I don't remember what it said on there, but it's basically step by step instructions on how we're gonna accomplish our plan. It's pretty much, , in a big list. The list is huge. It's like as big as Fidget is, but Dawson finds it. And Basil's like, Oh my goodness, this is everything we need.  And then I don't remember what happens after that.

Yeah. ,  let's go ahead and, , , break the spoiler here. Basil does nothing in this to solve it. I was just gonna, I was gonna say that he, the reason why you haven't heard us talk about him too much is because he's not really driving the plot. It's the villains that are, he's not really trying to investigate anything necessarily.

He is. But like,  things just kind of happen while they're there. There's no great mystery. He does have one moment of, quote, brilliance, but I think it's more luck than anything, but Probably. , he's full of shit. And Dawson, like, Dawson discovered the list. And at first he starts gaslighting Dawson and saying that's not something we need.

And then I think he goes, he actually reads the list. Yeah. And then he's like, oh, this is everything, I'm a great detective, la la la la la la la. . I don't know, like, they, they find this list, and I remember thinking in my head, it's like, well, the list is not going to lead you to where they are. No. But somehow it led them to where they Where they were keeping everybody, which is their, the, the abandoned keg.

And that, and so I still don't really understand it, and maybe I'm missing something. Do you remember, Andrew? Yes, we'll, we'll get there in a second. I think we have to,  the focus goes towards Rattigan. And, you know, Fidget, and Olivia, and, , Mr. Flavish, or whatever, the toy maker. Yeah.

Cause she's introduced to him, like, you know, on a whim. He's hard at work creating this device, and Rattigan is like, Ooh, look, here's your daughter!  Happy reunion! I'm gonna put her head on a pike! Yeah. And, you know, he allows them to have a moment of like hugging and embracing and just, you know, a little refresher.

But then he's like, all right, girl's mine. Get back to work. And they went, they go and shove her in a glass bottle and  cork it. So she's running out of oxygen. Yeah. She has maybe five minutes to live. Maybe, maybe. , and I think, I think that's pretty much it, is that? , did Toby smell the list and lead them there?

I don't know. I think so. Blacked out. Let's hope so. So we're back in Basil's home on Baker Street. And, you know, he gives a whiff of the paper. He's like, mm, that's a peculiar smell. Yeah, I do remember now. And he does some sort of like Experiment to discover that there's a large trace of sodium chloride in this this this parchment this paper that he has found Which leads him to believe I'm glad Andrew was paying attention and me and Kyle do not remember that I don't remember but it's a big stretch.

It leads him to believe that this comes from a bar down by The River Thames, because it is a brackish, you know, body of water. There is salt water in that, that river. it up to confirm. Me and Kyle at first did not believe that this was a I didn't either. We, all three of us didn't think it was. Freshwater River, and I guess that's the reason we blacked out on this.

And then we found out that we were dumb. Or not dumb, I guess ignorant. Ill informed. Why would we guess that an inland river would be salt water? It's the Mississippi salt water in Missouri. Well, no, no, no. Okay, no, but at certain points it is in the Delta, the Mississippi River Delta. Of course, but London is in the center of England in a sense.

Yeah, but also think about how much smaller that place is. In comparison to how, like, big. I grew up on the Tennessee River. I can say that there's enough pollution in that water that you don't know what you're gonna buy. And the Thames is disgusting, so you don't really think of it as, you know, carrying How far is London from the ocean?

Oh, a few hours. . It's not, like, terribly far, but it's, you know, a couple hours, I would, I would imagine.  It is far enough up there that I'd be, I was like, okay, well,  yeah. We are stupid for not really thinking that through, but No, I mean It is what it is. It is what it is.

, I don't know England's geography as well as our our own country. So sue me so  And he instantly finds the bar too. Like there was only one bar and it's a seedy establishment Full of I mean, it looks fun to me. It did, you know, so they they get in there and motley crew of characters They dress up too.

They don't just go in looking like themselves like they have to wear a disguise because they're like He's like looking he's like dawson. We have to be basically seedy like these individuals and so  Basil dresses like vincent price. Yes. He puts the vincent price mustache on which I I love that touch I think that's a lot of fun.

Most people would Miss that when they look right over kids, of course, , I mean, I don't I mean, me being a Vincent Price fan now as an adult, like, yeah, as a kid, no, no way in hell I knew what that was. So just a little nugget they threw in there for fun. Yeah, in which they re refresh it later. But , they get in this bar and this singer comes up and she starts serenading the audience.

And some of the henchmen notice that Basil and Dawson are there.  And they, they can kind of tell. Because Basil goes up to one of like the barmaids is like do you know of a fellow named Rattigan and she's like stupefied. She's like what no one asked for Rattigan. Yeah. I don't know the name clearly lying and that sounds off the alarms.

Yeah, and then so she tells some of the henchmen and the henchmen are like he's he that's got to be Basil. He's looking for yeah. Radigan, but then this one mouse goes up and starts singing and she's kind of like a burlesque dancer Like it's a risque. Yeah, it's a trio of them There's one that's in blue get up and there's the two other that are in pink and you know whole song and dance very risque very, you know,  and they slip like some I'm, not gonna say poison, but they slip something something nefarious in the drinks  And Basil smells it.

He's like, don't drink, and he looks over at Dawson. Dawson's just chugged Yeah.  He just instantly, like, three, two, one, drunk. Done. Yeah, and so it's not even poison, it's not like You know that he can handle his, his alcohol. Yeah, cause he, like, wears  off, like, in a matter of  seconds, honestly.

Like, minutes later. He's Rubenesque, but like, he can, yeah. So what, what happens next, Kyle?  Well, she sings her whole song and dance and this is kind of where we get into like, is this, this is one of the reasons why I have a trouble with this movie. Like, is, is this a musical?  There's only two musical numbers.

Yeah, so that's, but Disney does, Disney did that all the time. They did that in Robin Hood, they did that in The Rescuers, like, that is so common. Did they do it in Rescuers? I don't remember that. I'm pretty sure they did. I could be wrong, but. Yeah, , I wouldn't classify it as a musical, but there's always like.

There's like, there's a song and dance. To every, I mean, Mulan had. Yeah, well, that is a movie musical, but. Kinda, yeah, I mean, but it's hard, like, it's on the cusp, right? Like, you wouldn't classify this movie as an. Actual musical but it does have like too long. It's an hour and 14 minute movie rescuers is a musical comedy drama film So I would imagine there is a like song and dance number in there as well.

That's a that's a very  Disney thing it didn't bother me. I expected that hell you saw it in , brave little toaster Which is not far off from this either. Yeah, that shit happens. So I expected that I don't know. I just wanted them to share get off the pot I wanted it to be like is this are we actually gonna do a musical?

We're just gonna interlude a couple ones in here. So, and that's where I'm with you, though. Cause I, I like the musical numbers. They were good? No, it's not like they were bad. To be very clear, they're not bad. We didn't, we had two of them. I wanted more, I wanted either more or none. I don't disagree with you. 

But like, to be very fair, they're not, they're catchy tunes. They're well written. They're well performed. And the little musical numbers are fun. Like, to watch the characters, and like, In it and like interact. , the radigan song was really fun. It was a very few But but then you have you only have two of these numbers in the whole film Yeah, it felt like a short film and it yeah an hour and 14 minutes It felt like a missed hour and like five really but yeah  , but anyways, you could have had one more you could add a third one and it would have been  Anyways, they, you know, the whole song and dance ends, there's a huge, like, bar fight, because someone says the wrong thing to someone, someone actually, like, steps on someone's foot, and people fucking flip their shit, and at this point, Basil Full brawl in this place.

Basil sees an opportunity because he thinks he's figured out where the door to, , Rattigan's, , secret lair is, and sure enough, it's a trap door behind the bar. They go down, and mind you, Fidget has already been spotted in this bar a few minutes prior, so they know he's around somewhere. I think, , Basil sees him, , goes down this trap door a few minutes earlier.

He makes his way back there. Him and Dawson go down, they follow Fidget through this like pipe. Granted, you know, they're, they're in like the sewers and the under underworld of the human world in a sense. So they go down a pipe and then that pipe leads them to Radigan's lair, right? And they, they see the bottle, , and they think that the little. 

Body that's lying in there is Olivia because they they they see this they see what you're in this in the clothes Yeah, and they go to open it up and sure enough It's fidget and then boom everyone comes out of the woodworks Rattigan drops this  huge  What'd you called it? What would you call that? It's not a poster, but  It says like welcome basil or something like that.

Yeah, what what what is the noun that I'm trying to use here? It's not a poster. It's a like a banner banner. There. Yeah, it's a giant banner. So they set a trap for him. Yeah, and now  One of the the only funny things I laughed at is then they they put him on they put them both on mousetraps Yep, and tied him down tied him down onto mousetraps And he's just like, I tried to think of the ways that I was going to exterminate your life. 

And I couldn't come up with any, so I said, why not all of them? And he like, flips on the lights and he has like an axe. It's like this whole Goldberg machine. Yeah, it's like a gun. That's set up. Completely inefficient, dumb bullshit. End of lives right there. Yeah, it's like a what it was like a gun and axe.

So there's a little derringer. He has a record Player, you know a needle playing and the string is attached to that So the further the needle moves on the record. Total James Bond. Pulls the string which then pulls the metal ball marble that rolls down Knocks something over and it's like an axe a gun and an arrow and you know it all It's at once the arrow is like poison dart and like a giant like anvil too.

Yeah It's like the anvil was gonna be the coup de gras. Yeah, so there's supposed to you know be splatted by the the mouse trap, but then squished and pierced and shot. Yeah you know, just a little over the top, but like , it's like, it's an animated cartoon. So like, again, , it was, but it was, that was funny.

I laughed at that. I thought it was funny too. Yeah. And then like, it's a call back to James Bond and things like that. Kyle, how did they get out of this trap?  They. Time it just right while Basil's doing some math equations in his head. This is the only thing that Basil does. Yeah, that saves everybody. Is they're all going down, like, , the barbell's going down to trigger the mousetrap to decapitate them first of all, and then get shot after that.

 Essentially just get lucky because the ball just like he times it just right to like trigger the mousetrap beforehand  while the , marbles coming down that it hits the marble  instead of their heads and it saves them somehow. And then the axe like falls down and cuts them down right in the middle so they're separated on their mousetrap.

 I will go back in and say they were tied next to each other. They were shoulder to shoulder. Yeah.  That axe is getting them. They weren't separated when they were tied down. One of them's dead at least Yeah, or they're both missing a limb. Yeah  somehow it cuts it straight through and clean and the anvil comes down and they're able to get out of the way and now they're they're free and ready to Go after the daughter, but at this point Olivia the daughter  Radigan and Fidget are on their little getaway machine, which is like a blimp a blimp with a bike And yeah, and what's funny about it is we have a flying creature fidget Over there peddling the blimp. 

Which was also funny like this whole scene is pretty funny, but like so they get they raft together a fucking three balloons in a Tarp and then put it on a matchbox or something and then they they shoot off after them in this Makeshift balloon that they're like letting the air out of one of them to propel themselves.

Flying through the sky of London. And they're heading to Buckingham Palace. Well, but then they get stopped at Big Ben though. Yeah, so this is where the the whole climax happens and. No, they go to the palace. They head to Buckingham Palace. That's right. No, they do. Yeah, they do. So they get to Buckingham Palace.

And they, they meet up with the queen. They abduct her, essentially. And what's funny is they, like, ,  the guards out front are watching and then you see them get, like, beaten up and the henchmen are putting on their clothes.

Yeah. So as they come in, she doesn't realize that her staff has made a complete change. No.  She doesn't understand that these aren't her actual soldiers that are supposed to be helping her out. And they all are toothless and like Yeah, they're like, they smell of alcohol and , cheap cologne. And,  they should have blood splatter all over the uniforms. But anyway, ,  then Rattigan comes up and they basically abduct her and They tie her up and, you know.  That's when you find out the invention is a mechanical version of the queen.

And, and it's horrifying. It's really scary. It's like twitching and catching on fire. It's like a Teddy Ruxpin. She is exactly what it is. Yeah. So they're trying to dispose of the queen so. That they can have this effigy of her just literally say it's okay that Radigan is your leader now. Radigan is the leader He is a leader.

Radigan is a leader. Supreme Mouse  Chief. Isn't this how Stalin got in power?  That and a couple million murders. And then, you know, you might be asking how is an animatronic going to talk to the people? Well, there's some sort of like device, sound device. , where, , Flavers Shem the Toymaker, like, talks into this gramophone that projects , as the Queen's voice.

With a, with a slight hum and ring in it. Yeah, it's not exactly her voice, but I guess the mouse people are, are dumb enough to believe it. It's close enough. . People will vote for anything.  Yeah, at that point,  you know, , the, the animatronic queen is addressing the people and she gives, you know, Rattigan the, , chief title and you hear the gasp in the audience and then I don't remember what happens after this, but this is when things start to,  unravel quickly because, yeah, at this point Basil and Dawson are freed and like, they, they, they make it over there and as the queen's giving her speech to all of Mouse Dun or Mouse Tun or Lund Mouse, or whatever we're calling it.

Mouse Lung. Mouse Lung. Mouse Lung. , flabbersome as back there still Well, he's got guns on him as he's like giving the speech through the the it looks like a monophone. It's weird ,  basil shows up takes out the guards and this is backstage. They don't see it and he starts talking for the queen and saying just  Ill things about radigan then she says rat Yeah, and calls him a rat and he freaks out And then that's when the queen comes out and radigan in this big chaos mess escapes  back on his balloon  , and they go after him  on the same kind of flight they took to Buckingham.

They're taking there's a little more rinky dink Yeah, there's a little there's still the balloon kind of thing and then they make it and what happens next Andrew? We're getting to the climax of everything they're on their way to Big Ben. Yeah, I know that's what's his name fidget gets thrown out  on their little  Dead weight.

He doesn't and then Rattigan's like, oh dead weight. Well, I think you'll do and he just tosses him over the top And a bat who should be able to fly. Cannot. Cannot. Yeah, he's missing a leg and Falls into the water below and  I guess he perished. Yeah, he he falls and then they're able to make it to the clock tower And then you have this is where shit starts getting crazy.

 They make it into the Clock so  it punctures a hole in the clock. So they go they're inside the clock and Basil like was able to knock their I guess their air will say aircraft through it Yeah, and then now they're getting into a fight in the clock tower And then this is where the clock animation the gears and everything, which is CGI , but it looks good.

It was a good crazy looking scene and it's  This is definitely kind of one of those trancy scenes. It looks like it would be in a Pink Floyd music video. Yes. And they start getting into a fight and they end up back outside the clock tower, right? Like they're hanging on to the, the hands of the clock and what happens next, Kyle? 

So now we start having the big fight between Basil and Radigan and Radigan. It starts like his clothes start peeling off and he becomes more and more like a rat if he wasn't already Kind of hulking and scary and big. Jekyll and Hyde. Yeah, like a Hunchback of Notre Dame and Jekyll and Hyde. There's a lot of different  things you could draw parallels you could draw and it's it is I mean like as a kid Yeah, it was pretty scary scene cuz he's kicking the shit out of Basil.

Basil is not doing very well. He's horrifying now. Yeah, he looked, he, as a kid, yes, looking, last night when we watched this, it scared me when I was a kid. It did not scare me at all last night. Not last night. It just wasn't, I mean, like, there were scarier parts of that movie, like the bat, numerous times the bat was there, fidget.

That, that was truly, yeah, but Ratigan, they missed, in my opinion, as an adult looking back on this, they missed the mark on this. , and it was still, like, high stakes.  Like really high stakes. They're battling on the clock and like they make their way outside into the clock hands and This is where stuff starts getting weird and wonky and what happened what actually happens that leads to Rattigan  Falling off of the clock.

He's like holding on to the the hand in it. It's right midnight night Yeah, and then he falls and he grabs on to , what's his face to Basil? Yeah, yeah, and he pulls him down and they start falling Because Basil's on this like little aircraft thing and they start falling and they both  fall to their death basically until The little girl and Dawson are hanging on to their like little aircraft thing and watching all this happen  And then all of a sudden you see through the cloud of smoke you hear 

Basil had his little like  bicycles, dude. Aircraft. So, okay, I just have, I didn't want to say anything but I'm gonna say it because it kind of pissed me off. Because like, do you, do you know why helicopters make that sound? That like,  do you know why they make that sound? Because the ends of the blades are traveling faster than the speed of sound.

They're breaking the sound barrier. So unless you're sitting me here telling me That Basil was generating enough force from his tiny little mouse legs To propel that thing faster than the speed of sound Around the tips of its, of its little propeller I'm gonna go ahead and call horse shit on that But it is, it is a, it is a, it's a kids animated movie But it still pissed me off So like It's still, I'm allowed to be pissed off about one thing in this What, what did you think, did you think he was gonna ride a black hawk on?

I thought he was gonna, I thought he was gonna be like Bow NOW! Bow NOW! Bow NOW! Bow NOW! Here comes Basil in his Apache helicopter. Just, I thought we were gonna play Favorite Song or something, like, It was, it, it, it just,  Hey. As a kid, sure, that makes, that makes total sense. Hey, we shit on him, Basil, quite a bit, but, Three, three redeeming moments, he got them out of the hole.

He did. You know,,  What do you even call that death trap he was put in? A death trap, I guess, with Radigan. Yeah, I think that's the best. He saved Olivia from Radigan in the clock tower. She almost got squished by one of the gears, and then at the last minute he was able to somehow put together some sort of flying apparatus in the air while free falling, so like, I guess that's impressive for a fucking mouse to be fair.

They're on a big bin That would have been a long fall for a rat or a mouse that would , you know the equivalent for for us I mean that would be flying like from the stratosphere from like a plane or something.  I don't know. Just not, might as well not even worry about it. It's so high. Yeah, you're gonna.

It's so high. You've got a lot of time to think before you hit the ground. Yeah. , but, , to sum it all up, , they end back at Baker Street, right? And Basil's residence, and. , it looks like Dawson's gonna hang around, Olivia's found her father, and Basil's on to his next case.

And that wraps it up, right? Like, I mean, yeah, , Olivia's fine. Mr. Flavisham is fine. Nobody's lost, there are no stakes lost on their side. , Dawson was leaving and, you know, we have that woman who shows up in tears,  at Basil's door at the end because she's misplaced her emerald ring. And then Basil's like, oh, and this is my My accomplice, , Dr.

Dawson. And he was like, oh, yes, that That's me. That is me! And then, of course, you know, the Sherlock Watson, , connection, I guess, is succinctly made there, and, you know, Basil and Dawson are a team. And that is the end. That is it. That is, that is the great mouse detective. Yep. , a pretty little bow. 

Andrew, you go first. How do you feel about the great mouse detective? 

Um, in terms of adult versus your child expectations. It happened. I sat there and I watched it and it unfolded before my eyes. , you know, I was fine. Are you telling me you watched a movie? Yeah. , ,  I don't really feel one way or the other. I don't feel like it was a waste of time. I don't necessarily feel it wasn't even that long.

No, it was an hour and maybe 10 minutes. I think the actual runtime is one 14, but that includes the credits and everything. So as a minute, like an hour, five, it was a quick watch, you know, last night, I,  we were tired as shit, but you know, ready for it to be over there at the end. , so I could go to sleep, but you know, it was.

It was fine. There was not much meat to it. , it didn't really pull up my heartstrings like I thought it would unfortunately And it did not really rekindle a lot of that nostalgic  childhood feeling I had towards it  And that's just putting it plainly , again, it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't, there wasn't anything  truly spectacular about it either.

It was just a movie, an animated movie by Disney that I watched when I was a kid. And I rest my case.  Kyle, , I'm gonna give you plenty of time. Well, I'm, I'm not gonna say anything much different, because I agree with Andrew, but I'm gonna go a little bit deeper and say that it's just  

, it just didn't remind me of when I watched it the first time there was just a lot of. Stuff in there. That was just, I think I watched this when I was a young enough child to not really need to get more than like, Look scary.

I like him.  The girl mouse is so, I still feel so sad for her. She's so nice. Like there's nothing beyond that when you watch it as an adult and it's very hollow. It's a very hollow movie. There's not anything deeper happening. There's no threads being pulled. There is definitely certainly no like greater meaning behind anything.

It's just  Like bad man captures person must get person back. And then that's that we never got any Exposition as to why Rattigan was so bad and mean we never got any exposition as to why basil was such a good detective It was kind of just word of mouth There was no stories being told and it was just kind of   it wasn't a waste of time But like  I'm glad that we can distill this down for y'all because, like, we have covered better movies on this podcast, and I'm just gonna say that right now.

Like,  it's not a bad movie, but it's certainly not what I thought it was. No, this is one of those where it does not match the nostalgia that you, you had for it.   I agree for the most part. I do think, this is one of the rare movies that you'll hear me say needs to be longer.  Yeah, I feel like they didn't go all in on it, you know, like they kind of did a copy and paste Sherlock Holmes story.

, . We talk about all these kids movies and they have enough adult content in it. Cause I mean, as adults, you're taking your children to see these movies. So it needs to have something that strikes the balance. This is literally just a kid's movie, just a child's movie, just a kid's like, just like put it just like Teletubbies is a kid's show.

This is a kid's movie.  I know why like I never watch it with my parents because they would just put it on let me watch this while my mom cleaned the house or something. Yes, there's no ,  there's no reason gravity to it and and and like I don't think anything. I don't think it did anything wrong  I'll stand on that.

 I think it was fine. Like it didn't do anything wrong It just is it kind of like to andrew's point just kind of exists And , I highly appreciate the animation style. And some of the, you know, nuggets they threw in there, like the Dumbo and, you know, other things that we talked about, but.

They cared about making it, it's just, it's not long enough to develop anything, it's just kind of beat to beat to beat to beat. I feel like they just kind of mailed this one in. Yeah, maybe they were afraid to do something extravagant. I don't, I don't know what the process was. What did you say the budget was?

, 14 million? , that's not even a bad budget for a film like that. No, it's not. , I wonder how much they put into the black holder, and I wonder how much they were handicapped going into this one.  So I did read . This movie saved Disney,  it atoned for a lot of failures, because this was a very  Popular movie at the time and it was well received by critics.

Mm hmm. You know,  It's hard for me because like looking at the legacy of The Great Mouse Detective,  It's one that everybody knows, everybody watched as kids. It came out at a time where Disney was down.   This movie kind of brought Disney back. So, in a sense, you have to look at that as like a legacy on its own.

Yeah. And maybe not the content of the movie itself. Yeah, they didn't make a bad movie. It's just not a good movie. But that's all they had to do to get to the point they are now. I think Andrew's on to something. I think this is a movie that exists in that period of time where it's in between the really good of Disney  And it's stuck in the muck right before the renaissance at Disney and so you get kind of these lost in the shuffle movies that  Everyone thought they were really good at the time, but they were very average movies just Compared to a pile of shit.

I want to throw a little factoid in there for you. So the whole  , spiel that , I just gave about potentially, , having to just work with what they got after the Black Cauldron. , I think that holds up because the Black Cauldron's budget, y'all want to guess what that was? It was, it was huge.

It's like 45 million. Which is insane. Yes, for the 80s.  85? 80s animation movie. That's massive. And that's what we're talking about. It's like that movie almost tanked Disney. And it's, and that movie would be interesting to do one day,  We should do that.  But yeah, so I mean out so 14 million is a pair for it's 30 million less essentially So they were probably probably had their hands tied.

They probably did they had to work with what they got and this is what they delivered was a Okay movie a good but not bad movie  Yeah, and I think the whole they mailed it in I wouldn't say they mailed it in but they worked with what they had Yeah, that makes sense And and then on top of that too, they're they're working at a time period where animated movies were  not very popular No, and they were working against a bunch of shit.

Yeah, so this movie again Probably looked really good on paper in the 80s and even in the 90s when we were watching it But there's a reason that you haven't watched it since The mid nineties. And this is the reason  there's not, there's not much meat to it. Not at all. So very, it's very much.  Like the sides of Thanksgiving and not the actual meal, right?

Yeah,  it's absolutely what it is  Andrew  does it hold up? I think it does  This is not one that I would go and  watch six months from now I'm probably good with that one viewing. Yeah, this is one that I'll probably hold on to and Show my kids if I have kids one day, you know, that'll be the next time I probably see it  You know, like I said, it's just there I don't feel like it was a waste of time, but it didn't really give much to me but I do think it holds up with when you consider everything in terms of Their handicap budget and you know,  the graphics and animation for the time And and what it did for disney what it did for disney.

I think that's kind of where we're at right now And again,  I don't think it's that great of a story  It's a little void there, but yeah, it holds up. , there are other movies that we have done that are better, but there's other movies.  That we have done that are far worse from this  it's very middle ground Yeah, i'm not gonna harp too much and that's that that is what it is, but it holds up kyle It does not hold up  I kind of, I kind of saw that coming.

Yeah. It just, it doesn't, it doesn't do it for me in terms of like, I watched this as a child. I should feel something about it. Still not the same thing, but feel something about it. I'd be fine if I never saw that movie again. , there's just nothing to it. There's no more deeper. And again, we're spoiled because I mean, Disney and Pixar stuff after that happened was really, I mean like, it's really good.

Like Disney, Pixar really kind of like, Did everything right?  So I I just I think maybe because we're spoiled  maybe because  We're so used to getting good Disney and good kids material. I it doesn't hold up. Sorry Yeah, I'm weird man. I'm torn on the fence on this one. I want to say It holds up because of what it did for Disney, but in my own personal opinion, like my own collection, I would say it doesn't. 

Being an hour 14 minutes. It is so short.  It's one of those movies that just kind of came and went.

. , it's so short. There's not a whole lot of meat to the bone. It's one you can skip from your childhood. And I think I would say it doesn't hold up because if you watch it now, I don't think you're going to have like if you have a full nostalgia view of it, it's going to kind of like, it may wash it down.

It will disappoint you. It's not, I would just leave it in the back of your head where it is. Maybe watch a trailer. To kind of remember what the animation looks like. I don't want to say disappoint, I think unfulfilled, but like I didn't Sure, that's a better way to say it. I didn't leave, like, thinking like, oh shit, that was not what I expected.

 It was just like, oh, that wasn't quite what I thought it I'd cracked it up to be, but So we're, we're, and we're sitting here on our vote. I'm like, it holds up because of what it did for Disney, but it doesn't hold up in my personal opinion. So that's like, me split, Kyle says no, Andrew says yes.

So,   I think this is the first one where we're kind of, , 50 50 on it's gonna hold up to some people maybe yeah, I think absolutely so  This one's this one's a hard one to judge. But again, it's an hour and five minutes Yeah, it's I think it's worth your attention to see how you feel about it I just I don't I don't feel comfortable recommending that to people just because I like there are better movies We could have watched at this at the end of the day.

We this is why we're doing it though. It's like To tell y'all, who are listening, like, I just, I'm gonna be honest with you friends, like, they're,  It's not Batman and Robin, so I'm not gonna give it, like, a bad grade. It's not Godzilla. It's not Godzilla. But, like, it's just Honestly, it might have been better than Jungle to Jungle, too, so I don't know, I prefer, I like Jungle to Jungle quite a bit, I thought that was a good, a good movie.

Wow. Well, I mean, like, it was just, it had a better story. There was definitely more dynamic. I'll give you that. It was a lot more dynamicism. Like the, the, the art in it, I appreciate it a little bit more, but again, like , we're comparing something made in Disney's like, you know, shit years, , very not great years.

And it was a good, it was a shining point of those years. And we got to give it credit for that for sure. However, I just don't think it's worth a rewatch. Yeah. My opinion., well there you heard it.

The convoluted mess of we don't know. , well Kyle knows. But, before we get out of here. , I think we're gonna do some IMDB scores, and I think we're going to see this one as a nostalgia juice on IMDB. I haven't looked it up, but I have a, I know what it is feeling. , Kyle, do you wanna take a guess?

Andrew knows Kyle, do you wanna take a guess what it on IM DB on what it does on IMDB? Oh, give your, give no more than a six. I'm gonna say it's gonna get like a 6.4 on imdb. Yeah. Oh, I think it's gonna be the sevens. Give yours, Kyle. What I think Yeah, your, I would give it like a,  give it like a six flat, I think.

Oh, that's, it's, it's higher than I thought you'd give it. I'm not, it's not a failing just because I don't. I don't think it holds up. Doesn't mean it's not a good movie. I just don't think it's worth a rewatch. It's good for a child. It's a good one to have on your, like to keep for your children. As an adult, there's no reason to watch this movie.

I'm going to give it a 6. 1. That's kind of what I said. It was 6. 2, 6. 1. I'm giving it a 6.  1. As I give it a 5. 8 for all the imagination, but I'm going to say that it's a 7. 2 on IMDb. I'm going to say it's high. What do you think Kyle? You said IMDb. I think they're at it. I said 6. 4. It is a 7. 1. Wow. Right in the middle.

So a full point above what I said. I knew it was going to be high. Yeah. , that's not a 7. 1. Yeah, that's, it's not, it's, . It's just not, there's not enough happening in that movie for it to be. This, but watch this be like, what ends us. Watch there be like a mob outside of your apartment right now.

Like we missed all the subliminal messaging. Of the people who are listening to this. 12. 12, excuse me, sorry. Well,  that's about it.  You know what we do now we reach into your childhood nostalgia pull the movies from your past out We just pulled out the great mouse detective and we found out we don't really know It's 50 50.

Kyle says no. Andrew says yes. I'm torn down the middle. So, maybe decide for yourself. Just remember one thing. Nostalgia is a dangerous game.