Tis the season everybody and welcome to Hold Up, the show where we dive deep inside your childhood nostalgia, pull the movies from your past out to see if they truly hold up. I'm held up right here with two fantastic Christmas individuals themselves, Andrew and Kyle. Ho ho ho, feeling extra jolly today, ain't that right Kai Kai?

Don't ever do that. Don't ever do that. I'll do it as many times as I want to you won't be able to and I'm through with you Okay, so threaten me with a good time As audio listeners,  andrew, , just grabbed kyle in the no no zone.  It's not true I just gave him a little smack on the abdomen way to embellish and lie there chase You're setting a great example for all the children listening.

He there are no children listening. You're right if you're a child Yeah To turn it off. , but he did try to touch my nethers. That's , false accusations here. I was hoping that he would have got , a little bit lower, because it would have tickled my fancy, , so to speak. But they're really putting me in an awkward position.

You both know we do not have the budget for an HR department, so we cannot go down this road. Well, don't lie. That's all I gotta say. Well, speaking of HR nightmares, we watched the Santa Claus.  We did! Was that the best segue ever? Yeah, for sure. It wasn't. It wasn't at all, because I don't really know what HR he would run into, besides maybe He was in the mid 90s, so there wasn't much of an HR anyways.

Yeah, there wasn't. They didn't care about that. the average employee and how you treated people. Well, speaking of treating people, we watched the Santa Claus with Tim Allen.   Before we dive in, Kyle, I want you to tell me how you're feeling in the form of a Christmas gift. Christmas gift?  Could be anything.

Socks. Yeah.  There it is. That's all you need to say.  The most detailed response we've ever gotten from you. Yeah, but it says a lot. Yeah. Socks say a whole hell of a lot. Are they, I showed up for this.  Are they fun socks or no? Fuck no. They're, they're just like, they're just utility socks. White, white socks, tube socks.

It's, it serves a purpose.  It's like if communism could give a fucking Christmas gift, it serves a purpose for all, all can use it. It's a, it's like a $5 pack of 15 socks you get from Walmart or some shit. Mm-hmm . Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, I can feel it. So  The energy is just exuding. Well speaking of communism.

We watch the santa claus  I mean everybody gets something everybody gets something right? Yeah. ,  I think we all remember this one from when we were kids. Andrew. What year was this? 94 is when it came out Yeah, so I was three years old kyle. I think you were about the same age  You were four, okay.

Well andrew what you were like what two  He vividly remembers this, though. I mean, I do, but not in 94. I watched it when I was like, You know, maybe four years old in 96 or five in 97, but vividly remember it watching it.  Andrew Let's start with you then What do you remember other than watching it later on because you were a fetus when it came out I remember loving it as a kid.

Like this was like my first movie that exposed or  highlighted what You know, , the North Pole looked like and like how Santa would fit  into your actual everyday reality , I loved it.  I have Strong vivid memories of enjoying this movie watching it every year neither You know the day before christmas or like the week of It was if I created a top five favorite childhood Christmas movies this would be on that list without a doubt  Kyle what about you?

I don't remember this movie whatsoever until I just watched it I remember I think I saw it on TV once when I was like, maybe  eight or nine Maybe so like the only things I remember was like I was fascinated with his workshop and I was like There's no fucking Nintendo's here. So this isn't real  It was a little jarring to see that man gain that much weight in that short of a time and it was it's still jarring today When I saw when I watched it today very jarring  But I don't really have a very vivid memory of it.

Just some bits and pieces here and there  I remember a lot about this movie my dad. This is one of his Christmas favorites So we watched it a lot with him,  I remember watching it as a kid, but I don't remember having  any strong reactions one way or another.

I think  I liked it enough as a kid to watch it when it came on, but I wasn't, it wasn't like, Oh, I have to  see the Santa Claus. I have to watch the Santa Claus during my Christmas break. I usually end up watching Jingle All The Way or The Grinch. Those were the two that I remember the most. I've seen this movie, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many times I've seen this fucking movie.

Eleven?  Sure, no, it would be, , His parents don't want to talk about the nuclear accident he lived through. It would be twenty, twenty one, because I said fingers and toes, so. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Makes sense to me too. Chase, that makes sense to you? No, not at all. Okay,    we can't talk about the Santa Claus without Living in that time period of Tim Allen too.

Oh, that was  his peak his heyday, right? Yeah, this was his heyday. This was his  first feature film, right? Oh with Toy Story was Toy Story was 96. So yeah, this is before Toy Story. Yeah, and then Home Improvement Yeah, it was after that. I thought it was before. Was it before? No, no, I thought Home Improvement was before I should say.

 Home Improvement was popular at the time. So I think that's how he got the role in the series. Yeah, Home Improvement came out in 91. So this was three years into it. Okay. And that was very popular when it came out. I would imagine. So three years in, you're like, Oh, this guy, he's gonna, he's gonna star in a, Blockbuster feature family holiday film.

Perfect. He's the guy for it. , he fits that stereotype. Yeah clean, you know I mean We can go into his past. Are we gonna gloss into that or are we just no we should talk about it. We should we? Yeah, we absolutely should. , ,  for anybody who doesn't know Tim Allen was Arrested on cocaine charges.

And like, trafficking charges. Yeah, it was trafficking cocaine. , large amounts of cocaine and other drugs, narcotics in the 70s and 80s. It was good for him. Yeah. In Michigan, I'm pretty sure, , he worked with Oh, I 75, what are you gonna do? I don't know if it was the cartel, but , he was a big mover.

And he probably should have seen decades worth of jail time. But how did he, do you remember how he got out of it?  I don't know. I was never the biggest Tim Allen fan,  I don't like, love Tim Allen, I don't put him on some pedestal , he's like,  , he's better than Kevin James, but he has like, def, definite like, similarities.

Kevin James is the lowest totem pole. No, but they most things they try like much better than he's far better than him But I feel like  there are some parallels there in terms of like the sitcoms They've done and just their style repeat movies. Yes I think Kevin James style of humor is much more sophomoric and fucking inane dumb bullshit Kevin James is like a g rated Chris Farley to me.

Yeah, like it's just maybe like what is there like a lower level than G? Is there something that's you know, tvg? Yeah special ed because tim allen actually has some decent stand up I don't know if you've ever watched it But like he has some solid stand up that earned him some real respect in the comedy, right?

He was just he was a staple of movies in our childhood It's very hard to like think about our childhood without thinking about tim allen Yeah, I mean buzz lightyear. How can you not think of buzz lightyear and think fondly? Yeah  , so what do you guys remember about Home Improvement?

, it was on Nick at Night. That was really about it. Funny show. Remember, , Wilson, his, uh His neighbor never showed his face.  That was all I remember is probably because Jonathan Taylor Thomas was a big star I remember all the girls at school. Who was his sidekick?  You know the guy who ran the the shop with him or whatever owl Was that no was it owl?

 We should know who that is Yeah, uh, Richard Karn, , Al Borland. Yeah. Richard Karn, that was who I was going for. And he was in a lot of different things, but always as like a side character.

, you couldn't watch a movie in the nineties or at least a comedy in the nineties without seeing his face somewhere. Yeah.  Retired peacefully.  Yeah. , I think that about wraps it up on  The kids side of things, right? Yeah, yeah,   I will say this though. , do you know who they wanted instead of? No, no. Nick Cage.

Can you imagine Nick Gage's Santa Claus? I would love that. Nick Cannon? It was not Nick Cannon either. Eleven year old Nick Cannon. Yeah. Hey, he's old. It was Tom Hanks. Oh, that tracks. They were in talks with Tom Hanks to do this role and I think Tom Hanks would have been okay. Yeah. I think Tim Allen's got a little more bitiness to him.

I'd like to swap out Tim Allen in Saving Private Ryan and Tom Hanks in this movie and see how well they would have done.  That would have changed the course of history, I feel. Hey, how about Judge Reinholdt making a strong appearance? Good ol Judge.  Fuckin prick. He plays , the soft prick, , very well in this movie.

 Him and his lame ass sweaters.  I think it's time to jump into some numbers. , Andrew, can you tell us how this movie did? Yeah, , healthy budget of 22 million. That's pretty good. And then domestic opening, they got 19. 3 million of that back. 

Nice. And then domestic altogether, 145 million in some change, international 45 million, so worldwide almost 200 million in total. That's really fucking amazing. , for a Christmas movie, that has to be one of the highest grossing Christmas movies. Yeah. Of all time. I was, I wasn't surprised because, like I said, I feel like this is a successful holiday film, but 190 something million in change with only 22 million lost.

Like a fifth of a billion dollars. And they also,  I was reading that They capitalized on Tim Allen's popularity  and that really drove a lot of people to theaters and,  what was his name? Eisner? Who is the CEO of Disney. Yeah, Michael Eisner. Was really pushing for Tim Allen to be in this.

In fact, eisner wanted to cut a lot of this movie to remove other characters that weren't Tim Allen so they can focus on him. Oh, what a visionary. Yeah, and I think that really shows in this movie, which, like I said, we'll get into when we start deep diving, which,  are we ready? I think so.

Let's get into it. Kyle, are you ready?  Hold my hand, Kyle. Hold my hand. There it is. Nice, soft grasp. We've completed a physical pact with each other. Yes, we have. A covenant, one would say. Now we are one together. We are one together now. Well, let's proceed. Should we spit? Yeah.  There we go. Now that we have that,  

kyle, where do we start with this movie? A holiday party.  Like what movie beforehand? Oh my god, it's like we're watching Jingle All The Way. Die Hard. Oh wait.  Because that also was an explanation of my character.  And they're having a holiday party on Christmas Eve, of course.

That's really dumb. But whatever I feel like nowadays everybody be gone. Corporate America matters. Don't forget that. Well, you know, it doesn't matter clearly as we go through this scene and we've  we see is nobody's families matter because they're all they're all there and Tim Allen,  the, do you like the joke that he made?

He was like, Jack's family's not here because his secretary's sitting on his wife.  , what is it, the head of the department, the sales department goes, oh, we have two special people to thank for our, what is it, , what's it's name? Something Dolly.

Do It All Dolly. So you have to burp her, change her, take her for a walk. Put her in her crate.   I forgot that Tim Allen was like a creative in a toy industry. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh my God. Good writing. Great writing. So lazy. Um, and they have that do it all dolly doll. Yeah. And , they record sales that year because of Tim Allen and his, , his counterpart.

And she's, she comes up, , A black woman comes up, starts talking, and within a sentence cuts her off. Just grabs the mic. And I'm like, yeah, this is definitely the 90s right here.  And he just, yeah, he makes that funny little clip about, well, our families matter, but Johnson's family's not here because his secretary said it was laugh.

Ha ha ha. Ha ha. Ha ha.  Little inappropriate stuff right there. Well again, these are 90s movies. They had to put the adult jokes in there because adults are dragged to the movie theaters to see these with their kids. Mainly me and you.  But I will say that they abruptly changed scenes real quick to him driving home in his, what is that, a 1993  Ford Taurus?

1995 Ford Taurus? It was something. It was, it was, Yeah, yeah. And he, it was an odd place for a guy that makes that much money to be driving, , also his, his like town home. I was expecting just like a, a house by himself. But I mean, I guess, I don't know if it was a town home. I think it looked, I th I thought the same thing.

I thought it looked like a town home, but then like they were, it was just a weirdly designed home, I think. No, I think because they were, there were other doors there out front, like they were, you know, uh, like four.  I'm telling you, it's just like the Winchester Mansion. He had built onto that thing. Sure.

You ever been to the Winchester Mansion? No, no. It's fuckin weird. I wanna go. I think it'd be fun. Where the fuck is the Winchester Mansion? It's in California. Oh, that's just Okay, I know what you're talking about now. It's a very haunt Yeah, the haunt. I mean, like, I  don't know about that, but it definitely has a weird feel.

Weird feeling when you go in there. It's definitely like because she like she thought she was haunted She just kept building ways to nowhere Yes She came on building rooms and rooms and rooms and rooms and rooms and like you will get lost in there if no somebody is Not there to help you. Well, anyways, he lives in the Winchester mansion.

This takes place in San Francisco There's a  baby version. Yeah,  but but no though he leaves  The little work function because he's late to spend Christmas Eve with his son Because he's divorced and he's driving up and then  Almost like another movie with Arnold, but he didn't quite get to that point.

There was no traffic, though. There wasn't. In Arnold's case, there was traffic. But he was still lying about it. He was lying, and he was like yelling at people while calling, like, on the phone. Hey, what are you doing? That wasn't very ladylike. Well, the expressway is fine.  Empty, yeah. Which is kind of funny.

It is funny. I thought it was funny. And what they're trying to set up is that he's just not a very good dad. He's a distant father who cares more about his career and you know, there's a reason that his wife divorced him. We touched on this with Jingle All The Way. It seems like a lot of these movies, especially the Christmas movies, would,  they have to have some sort of Distant father or someone who is they got a show that he's human.

All right, like these are complete. We've all been there. Yeah, we all We've all had a family that we just don't give a fuck about  So he gets home and his estranged wife, I guess is no is divorced with divorce wife. They're not strange Yeah, and she's with Neil now. Yes, Dr. Neil. We got a lot of exposition very quickly in the first five minutes and that they're divorced He's getting the kid for, , Christmas, and we don't like Neil because Neil's a fucking prick.

Yeah, and he sees the new stepdad who's trying to take, you know, Scott Calvin's place. That's his name, by the way. Scott Calvin, S C, initials, S C, keep that in mind. Um, And, you know, Neil's very like, We gotta go. We gotta go. You can't go in. You can't go in. He's like tapping his wrist like he has a fucking watch on.

I think I even yelled at the TV. I was like, Fuck off, Neil. That's not your kid. Yeah, let your ex wife go in and talk to her ex husband to discuss the holidays and like, when the kid's gonna get picked up tomorrow. Like, fuck off.  So they go inside and they start fucking about. Talking about like the kids like  what's the kid's name charlie charlie charlie's like i don't want to stay here mom I don't want to can I go well you pick me up early dad's the fucking worst  and then um We we just roll right into he doesn't know how to cook He's trying to cook something for his kid and he makes this smorgasbord.

I thought this was funny. He was cooking Clearly trying to cook a turkey opens up the cookbook. He's like four hours. It's already dark outside Are they gonna be eating it like midnight? It's got to be like well  Well, maybe even later they were up way north though. I think they were close to Chicago or something Chicago So it probably was dark by like five This was Chicago.

Yeah for later shots. It was for there was like About eating around 830 sounds about right. This would be a slow mo This was also filmed in, , Toronto and during the summer. 

, but he ends up burning the Turkey. But before that, I'm sorry, , we have to give context to the scene, so. Him and his ex wife are getting into a fight while Charlie's there. Like, uh, they're talking about Charlie has found out that Santa doesn't exist. Some kid at school ruined it for him and then Neil and them told her that Santa's more of an idea.

He's more of a spirit. Yeah, just like Neil. And then like Neil's like, yeah, we don't want to break his sense of reality. And this kid's like six years old. Yeah, no, we don't want to think about it. He said, we don't have a false sense of reality and he goes, Tim Allen's like, well, God forbid the kid have some imagination.

Like, that would be the worst thing in the world.  They're trying to set up that Tim Allen's character, Scott, is a piece of shit father. And he, he doesn't seem like the best father, but he doesn't seem like the worst person in the world. He cares about his kid. He wants, he wants his kid to have a childhood.

Yeah. And so now I'm like, I know what they're trying to do, but I have the reverse feeling. Yeah. I hate the mom and the stepdad especially I think they're like they're like helicopter parents. They're like californian parents. Exactly like Um, but they're he needs to be on a vegan diet. Yeah, they're trying to they're trying so hard to make this kid into an adult At the age of six.

Cause, you know, Neil's a psychiatrist. , and Scott is like, No, he needs to have a, a childhood. He needs to, like, have fun. And they're getting mad that Scott's still talking about Santa and pushing that imagination along. But, you know, going forward, he burns the turkey.

And where do they end up, Andrew? They tried to go to some, like, Really nice Italian restaurant, but they're closed on Christmas Eve. So they end up going to fucking Denny's. And  there's a nice little, little joke in there. He's like, it's an American institution. And it just shows a bunch of Japanese, like businessmen sitting around, like having a good fucking time, which is, I thought that was very, I thought it was hilarious, funny. 

They're out of everything at this time. They don't have the eggnog, they don't have the pie. They don't have chocolate milk for the kid. We're out, we're out, we're out. Like, what the fuck do you have? So six year old Charlie's gonna be getting a, you know, Denny's Grand Slam for his Christmas dinner. I think they were out.

They're probably out of that shit. Can of Alpo for his fucking Christmas Eve dinner. And that waitress, she was not having her job that day. Who would? Are you fucking kidding me? Why do you wanna be fucking serving at a Denny's on Christmas Eve? Who would? on eve eve not even the day just eve eve yeah and and also it's funny too that they're under a time crunch too because the mom said that she was gonna come pick charlie up like it like sunrise the next day so it's like why even get visitation rights at this point you have him for like eight hours  so well we'll flip up on that pretty quick But essentially they go home after that and they have this whole thing about he's reading them the night before christmas and he actually He's asleep and he's not asleep and he's got daddy.

What about this daddy? What about this dad? What's a clap? He said what's a ladder and then scott corrects him. He's like a clatter clatter Arose such a clatter a sound came about did you know that was gonna be the title of this movie such a clatter?  That was the original working time. Was it really? Yeah, and then they just change it to the Santa Claus Which for the reasons we get into later, I think that works   This was almost Tim Allen stars in such a clatter That changes everything.

I would have been addicted to methamphetamines if that wasn't there. Yeah, I would have too. Remember what you were talking about with Saving Private Ryan. That could have changed history. That could have changed everything. , but  he finally gets the kid to go to bed and  all of a sudden, what happens Andrew?

There's such a clutter. There did, it changed. There's a big Thud on the roof, it echoes throughout the house and Charlie screams, , wakes up and runs into his dad's room is like, dad, dad, dad, a clatter, a clatter. And  Tim Allen, Scott Calvin was like, what the fuck are you talking about? He literally said, what the fuck are you talking about?

You idiot, really aggressive. I'm surprised Disney allowed that. , I did not say that, but you know, Scott was like, I don't just, it's probably the way to go back to sleep and then all of a sudden you hear a clatter.  Up on the roof and he's on the rooftop. Yeah, holy shit. Charlie's like You stay put here.

, someone's on the roof. I'm gonna go check it out. He runs out comes back You know how to dial 9 1 1, right? And he's like, yeah, 9 1 1 Hilarious Well, I got into one joke that I've laughed at at this point in this movie. There really isn't there really aren't many It's a little too on the nose a little too dry It's too on the nose and a lot of it is  childlike.

It's very childlike I assume as a kid I was laughing my ass off. But, basically, they go outside and  He yelled he sees a home intruder on his roof and he goes hey you and the guy turns around to Santa Claus suit and Falls to his death and which I never got clear on that. Did he die? Yeah, did he have a did he have a heart attack?

 I cuz he  Hypertension, right. This is a mythical creature. Like how did he just like him if he died He fell into like a bank of snow. It's like he should be okay Yeah, no, in my 30s would have Definitely they have a slipped disc at the point. Yeah. Oh for sure. Oh for sure. But this is Santa Claus.

He's trained for this shit. And , he just died. He just died. He just, he yoded. He completely yoded and, and force ghosted him way out of that. They look up and they see the reindeer and they come back and then it's just clothes. It's just clothes. There's no physical entity.

, I wish that they'd actually filmed this, but the original script called for Scott to shoot him. With a shotgun.  I knew we were gonna get some gun violence at some point. They needed some gun violence in this movie. I needed to juice it up a bit. I think he knew it was an intruder, so he goes out with a shotgun, not knowing, and shoots him, which would have been hilarious.

Can you imagine? But Disney was like, we can't, we can't do that.  I can condone it. So I think they didn't have any other way to kill Santa. That's sad. So they just like have him. He just fell. Santa committed self kill. I mean to be fair, we didn't really see how he landed. He could have literally just broken his neck.

No, we saw how he landed. He landed straight on his back. Like you see him slip, you see him like slide off, and you see him land in the snow. There was nothing around that. I don't think it was a full body shot though. Like it was maybe like I'm saying back and legs. I'm saying Santa had an aneurysm, fell and died.

I think he got spooked and then, but he, but remember when he's down there, he does wait, he goes, he waves and that's him waving goodbye. Oh yeah. Yeah. But then they go, they go start rooting through his clothes as one does. , and pulls out, he's checking for ID. Yeah. Which again, as one does, , and gets a, , there's like a little like a business card.

Yeah. It looks fancy. It's got some lettering. It just says the Santa Claus, but it doesn't say Claus. It says C L a C L a U S.  Yes, correct. It does. So it's Santa Claus, it's Santa Claus. Oh, oh, oh. And then on the back it says if something were to happen to me put on the suit the Reindeers will know what to do. 

 Of course the big game animals would understand with their fully developed brains and frontal lobes. Magical big game animals. I'm so fucking sorry. Don't forget that little, so fucking tidbit. How dare you talk about Comet that way? He was the most like energized character. Yeah, there also, there was, there's no Rudolph.

Do we get around that fact that there's no rudolph like he was back playing reindeer game. Yeah, duh  Good one chase. That was great.  Dad joke of the episode. , but Before they even get up on the roof remember that ladder appears just out of nowhere and it's a nice magical wooden ladder and on the you know, there's like embroidery on the front that says Arose such a ladder company or something like that the way that charlie  the way that charlie pronounced it like a kid Yeah, it was a yeah, it was an interesting little for a it was cute.

It was cute. It was so cute So  they get up on the ladder He brings the clothes with and they go up to obviously check on  the fucking rain small herd of reindeer That's made their way to the roof and he's like, oh, it's a present from the power company. Maybe they'll give us the Disney Channel  Shameless plug there you go What happens at this point is The kid goads, sorry, Charlie goads his dad into putting on , the outfit because he really wants to have a good time with his papa and he does and it starts, he picks up the bag and , , it suctions him into the chimney and the chimney reshapes and he reshapes to fit the chimney, who in the fuck knows what's going on there, he just became a liquid.

He just morphs down the chute to get into the house. To get into the house, drops off. Like a plasma. Yeah, he drops off the presents, comes back up, and that's how the Santa Claus gets in and out of people's homes for a home invasion in this movie. I want to put a pin in that too, because there's a lot of like weird magical shit happening and he does not really question it like one would in this situation.

He does, but it's not as much as he'd want, he's just kinda like, alright, I'm just going with it. Yeah, he literally just goes with it, he's like, oh, there's reindeer on my roof, must be from the power company, and then. And then he goes down the chimney, which should, that should cause you to have an aneurysm or a stroke.

Yeah, um, or at least like sit there and question all sense of reality. But think about it this way, if a four year old was watching this and Scott Calvin reacted in the way that any normal person would, how do you think that would be received? Like you see some adult like having a panic attack. Like that would just ruin it for every child watching.

That'd be really funny. It would be very funny. It'd be very dark. And then you put Santa getting shot in there.  And then It would change , the wholesomeness  of this movie altogether. Can you imagine, Scott? But that is wholesome. Gun violence in America is wholesome. My guns have rights.  Amen, brother.

 So he drops into the chimney, comes back up and then they just start doing that in other houses.  He's such a fucking prick in some of the other houses. He's like, go the fuck to sleep. He's essentially to that shit, which honestly, I mean, yeah, go fucking go to sleep.

Shut up. You want your presence? Just shut up. , again, , he accepted it in five minutes. This man has better patience than me. He's accepted it. And he's just like going around for the ride. Now he's like, Oh, I just got to do it till the job's done. 

He does do that, and I don't, there's no timeline given for how long it takes. Who would know. We should do the math on that later. , I have a feeling that it's completely unrealistic in any way, shape or form. , and then remember , there's a little time continuing thing. Oh yeah. Oh, that's why the continue space, continuum, , the five-year-old, , justice just throws it out there.

Yeah. He has an understanding of, , of worm Pole theory. , but they just keep doing that. And then they, where do they end up? They eventually make their way up to the North Pole. They do indeed. ,  and it's a balmy night in the North Pole during the month of winter when I'm pretty sure.

The Earth's axis is tilted so much that they have a continuous night and the temperatures are probably close to, I don't know, negative 50. And little Charlie's just sitting there with rosy cheeks and his little windbreaker on like nothing's happening. So they land. It wasn't, uh, Tim Allen just like,  the Santa suit was just falling off of him.

So there's no way he was like, anything was tight knit to his body, or he was, it was probably like, seven sizes, eight sizes. At one point, like, he was wearing just underwear. Yeah. Outside. Like, he didn't put, let's get back to that.  He didn't put pants on to kill Santa Claus. Also, like, flying at that altitude over and over again, like, you'd get frostbite.

Yeah, , there's just, we can't dive too much into it, because we're just gonna find too many things. . Yeah. Basically, , they're like, what is it? What is that? They land, the reindeer go away. He's like, Oh, no, we're stuck here. And then all of a sudden the snow fucking melts or magic takes them underneath the ice.

And then there's just, remember some elf comes out from one of the snow banks and that, that pole is there and a key pad pops out and they type in some code and then they start to, you know, yes, they had to disarm the ADT security system to get in, , which I actually thought was like really clever. I liked it.

I liked it enough. And then they get down into the North pole. And you have Santa's workshop and the kids and well the elves kids Which I like the fact that the elves were kids. They were young Yeah, they were young and I might as Bernard if that was the director's choice Yeah to make them kids because he wanted the feeling of  You know that he can't just freak out and be like mean because all these kids are around him and he has like a Sensibility because he is a father to not be an asshole to children But he also has a sensibility to be a prick in real life, too.

So we need something to counter Yeah,  his patience is still being tested, but he sees all these kids , they're working I guess on next year's gifts and stuff. So and he meets the head elf Bernard  David krumholtz great actor, by the way. Yeah a great performance here. Yeah , I I don't I still don't understand the little mini dreads he had ever but you know, no Yeah, , and he speaks like he's from brooklyn, you know, isn't he from brooklyn?

I'm pretty sure krumholtz from new york  He didn't change his voice at all. That was his voice. We didn't need to Needed to very versatile actor. I mean look at you look at his , his career and what he's done. I mean He's  he can do a lot. Yeah and for him He's kind of talking to tim allen charlie's like in long island Yeah, just like loving every moment of this wants to live there wants to be santa claus all this good stuff  charlie has a heart of gold is what they're  establishing here And Tim Allen's walking around the workshop.

, I just want to go home. Can I get home? I I just need to get back home. He's like you're Santa Claus and he's like, I'm not Santa Claus. I'm Scott Calvin Oh, you're Santa Claus and you'll be back here and you know, uh in time for for  you know, the new year The new christmas year, but  by thanksgiving and he's like, no, I won't yeah, and so that again Yeah, and he was like no I and then he finally pulls out the  the santa claus card  that he took off  the dead body And they read some really fine print like tiny tiny prints.

They had to pull out a border It's the border of the small red border and it's and it reads like a legal contract That anybody that takes that card is now destined to be santa claus There you go anyone until they die until they have an aneurysm until they get scared or you know And fall into a bank of snow he's still like in disbelief.

He's like this isn't happening. I'm not santa claus, whatever So then take me to my chambers.  I need some food. I need to eat And this complete I don't believe it But let me eat at least in my chambers and there was this one funny part in when he gets in that room And he's just like kind of tired   He pulls his pants down because he's gonna try to get undressed for the night And there's two puppets and one of the puppets just screams. 

Yes. So that was really that was funny. I gave me a chuckle  Little weird joke there. He's getting the , he's getting served the hot chocolate from Judy And he was like,  I don't want any and she was like it took me 1, 200 years to perfect the recipe He's like 1, 200 years, huh? Okay,  I must say you look pretty good for your age and she's like Awkwardly like sheepishly responds.

I'm seeing someone in rapping and he was like, oh the child to the child Okay. Yeah, so is  she's a child, but she's also 1, 200 years old Yes, seeing something think vampire just I don't know. I felt very conflicted in that moment. Yeah  it there's some stuff like  that I also felt was like this doesn't really it's not really working Yeah, it didn't bother me.

It was just an awkward because I didn't see him as like hitting on her No, she was the one who made it weird Yeah, like where he was just like you look good for your age and it's kind of like sarcastic. It was very sarcastic  it was very I thought he was trying to hit on her But anyways, he goes to bed After he's had his little fill, wait, wait, wait, wait, didn't we get the snow globe?

The snow globes at that point. Oh yeah. Bernard gives, , Charlie a little snow globe at the beginning. Calls him sport. Hiya sport. Hands him the snow globe. He's like, I've had this longer than, you know, I've been alive or something. He's like, it's been around longer than I've been alive.  you know, hands it to him.

And it was, it looked like a really nice,  put together, well made snow globe.  Yeah. Yeah. And he gets it. It's a very nice snow globe. That'll come in handy later. And then they, they fall asleep and wake up  in his own home. So it's just a fever dream. He just took a bad batch of acid and they just woke up and now they're just, that's what Tim Allen thinks.

He like gets up, Charlie's unwrapping his presents. And he's like, Oh, I've, It was just a dream, but he looks down and he's wearing the pajamas. The silk pajamas with the SC embroidered on the breast pocket. Doesn't know how he got them. And he's like, what the fuck? And then he's like, oh shit. What happened last night?

He, and he's convinced it was a dream.  He's telling Charlie It was a dream because Charlie knows about it, too Which would break the dream theory. And Charlie's down there, his mom has just arrived He's yapping about it, and he's like, we went to the North Pole. , we flew in a sleigh with 12 reindeer, yada yada yada And Bernard the house elf gave me, and she's like, what the fuck are you talking about?

What'd y'all do last night? And not only that, but  She panics  instead of just being like, oh childish imagination like we all would do with the six year old like  She's just like looking at neil and they're both just like what foolish endeavors has my son gotten into  Scott what kind of ideations is the six year old having right now about a fictional person that he thinks is real Neil's just like feverishly sweating, but also like He's not a nihilist yet, fuck me, yeah, shit.

And he's also getting kind of turned on because this is like a therapist dream. Absolutely. So. But this is where we embark on essentially like a 30 minute journey in this film of, It's pretty quick.  It's pretty quick and we go through a lot, like this is a very sad part of the film. About 20 30 minutes of just  Charlie being gas lit by his dad.

And his mom and stepdad. Like what you see wasn't real. That never happened. What you see wasn't real. That never happened. I know it happened. Why are you lying for it? La la la la. And , they go to the school, and they have a Yeah,  the first, you know, episode after that, that Christmas, , whatever you want to call it, , experience there.

They're having like, , Dad Day, if you will? No, it was like,  Career Day. Career Day, , and you enter on , the firefighter. Which was one of the funniest parts, because it was, it was literally like And that's why third degree burns are the most painful and then she goes thank you so much For telling us that and we're really sorry about your partner  That was kind of put there just like in jingo all the way the guy with the safety suit It's exactly we had that we had to have a one good moment for that for the parents to be there and , that was worth the watch in my opinion at that point.

Charlie brings his dad up and , he's got the, what was it? Debbie does Dallas doll or whatever it was. He fucking knows. Debbie does Dallas. , but , he starts saying like, my dad's Santa Claus. All the kids start laughing and then, and then Scott's like, well, I'm kind of like Santa Claus. I'm a, I'm Toy executive and create toys and charlie's like no We went to the north pole on christmas eve And he just starts spouting off all the shit and all these six year olds too who should have the same imagination He does are just like yeah, right.

Santa's not real and they pull out their cigarettes and start smoking What's that dork say? He asked like a really like Cutting question. Oh shit. What what is it? You remember? It doesn't matter his character didn't matter at all. It didn't  You could tell he was like the class bully Yeah, and then they didn't they establish him as the bully and never just like return to that never  So but you could just Charlie's just getting kind of ridiculed  and at this point Neil and his mom are having huge concerns  Like detrimental concerns and then like why is my son hallucinating?

Why is he making this shit up?  And Scott's trying to get he's like, hey keep this a secret between you and I yeah, you know doesn't explain Doesn't say anything other than that And the kid says, yeah, Charlie was like, yeah, I'll give you five bucks for it. Yeah. I'll give you five bucks for your silence.

Someone we didn't touch on that. We just will lightly talk about real quick is the fact that like pretty much a week later, he starts growing facial hair and gaining an obscene amount of weight, like 45 pounds in one week, which is you would probably die. It's beyond unhealthy. He walks into the board meeting and he, you know, he's wearing a sweatpants with a, like a sports jacket over top. 

Scott, what the fuck happened to you? Wood's dry cleaner burned down with all my clothes in it. You'll never guess. I'll have a hot fudge sundae, , Caesar salad without the chicken, and I'll also have three cookies, I'll have a, , what else does he have in there? Uh, creme brulee. Creme brulee, like fucking like extra fudge in the side.

Oh, and I got stung by a bunch of bees. That's why I'm so bloated. Yeah, it'll go away though. It all makes sense. So he start I mean like it's like nastily like eating all that was the part that like It's still pretty nasty for me. Like that just doesn't I don't feel good. I don't like mouth noises in general Yeah, and it was yeah that so like he starts gaining weight and looking more and more like Santa as the months go on because this Is happening over the course of months, even though we're not saying it is.

Yeah, definitely happening over the course of months He goes to  the doctor  And he's like having him run on the treadmill and then he like checks his pulse and he's like, hmm,  pulse is fine, man. Blood pressure is fine. He's healthy as a horse is what he says. And yeah. And he's like, what do you eat? And he's like, Oh, you know, cookies and milk. 

I don't finish all the milk. And he's like, well, there's your problem. Just cut back on the sweets. You'll be fine. , at that point they saw the doctor, he'd gained so much weight. It was like a hundred pounds at that point.  Did you know during the stress test Tim Allen threatened to storm offset?

No. Why? Because when he was running on the treadmill, they had a 50 pound fat suit on him. Oh fuck. And it was And the reason it was 50 pounds is because they wanted it to jiggle when he ran Fuck and so he was he was doing take after take and it was the last take of the day. So it was midnight When he was doing it and the glue was ripping his skin and they kept telling him he's gonna do another take and he was Just furious.

He was  Like this is not humane this hurts No, that was 50 pounds and your run even if you're a slight jog with 50 pounds on that would You  No, if you're not used to doing that, . And also the weight being that low on your body. Awful. That's gotta be awful. This is what Tim Allen says. Tim Allen says it's 50 pounds.

I don't think it probably weighed that much but at the same time anything above 20 pounds at that point Well, not even that that's a lot yeah, even even 15 pounds over the course of hours if you're doing this take and you just have it on would be  absolutely miserable running with the weighted vest sucks as it is so I can't imagine a fat suit That's probably making you sweat in  the fucking glue.

 And it was also during the toronto heat wave that he was wearing this and in a warehouse They were doing this in a warehouse. So You  Can't have fans on. Yeah, no, I don't blame him at all. Usually a lot of people are like, I can't believe you're getting paid that much money. No, like if you're not used to doing that, you're not ready for that, no, fuck that noise.

I'd be, I'd be out too. I'd be like, fuck this. , but, cute little, , what do you, it's not, it's not really, I mean, it's kind of imagery, but he checks , . His heartbeat with a stethoscope and what's his heartbeat but jingle bells. Yeah, I love blair. Love that yeah part like and it's Yeah, it's cute.

It's  Yeah,  it's like when I was watching it. I was thinking during that whole scene It's like I don't find any of this funny, but I bet as a kid I would find This  hilarious for sure and i'll probably laughed at  like tim allen getting really fat all of a sudden  But during this whole time we need to go back to the board meeting Because I love the board meeting and he has  a couple of them, but this the one where he goes in and what was it?

They had the santa tank Oh, yeah, there was a new toy a santa tank and he was like no. No, no, that's that's that's not right Santa was saying it you can finish it. You can yeah, it's like  Santa wouldn't drive a Panzer.  He would though. , I think he would. I think Santa, I think Santa would definitely drive a pan. Drive a Panzer. Isn't he a Germanic  myth anyways? Yeah. Or is he a Slavic myth?  I think so.  I thought Santa Claus was like from Turkey or something.  I'm not even kidding you. I  thought Santa was Mandarin. I thought he was Chinese. I'm pretty sure the original Saint Nicholas is from Turkey.  Anyway,  They introduced the santa tank,  starts throwing a fit over it and  the other executives come  Are like shocked.

Like, why are you all of a sudden on a high horse about Santa Claus? And he goes into details about the elves. Like why can't they be kids with some like, you know, sparkle on their cheeks. They're their, they're silver cheeks, you know, and just extreme detail. Yeah. And they're, and what experience they're throwing this detail in here where he's now start slowly  he's starting to become Santa Claus, basically. Yeah. Not, not so much like, um, an asshole anymore. No, he can't help it because he's evolving. . He's evolving into the man. But we're having all this is what Darwin was talking about, too. This is exactly what it is.

Rapid evolution of a species. , but, , we start, we literally, like, all this stuff has happened concurrently. And this is a very short movie. It isn't it isn't Like an hour and a half. Hour hour and thirty hour and thirty minutes. Because we're getting a lot of stuff happening. And this is the part where it starts getting really sad.

Because  they're starting to get into a custody battle over the kid.  They're at a soccer game. And at this point he has his hair is grayish white. He looks like Santa Claus. He looks like Santa Claus. Yeah, he looks like Santa Claus. He's wearing, you know, a tracksuit, but like, you know, Christmas color themed, and he's on the bench watching Charlie play, and these kids start lining up, , to tell Santa what they want for Christmas.

Yeah, these kids know it's Santa. They can feel the magic,  Neil and his mom see that, and she thinks it's so despicable that he would change his appearance to try to Get Charlie to like him. Yeah, this is wrong. And mind you they've already had  a parent teacher conference about this shit Yeah, and you know like you got to tell him that it's not real And this is when they make the promise pact.

Which Scott keeps saying I'm not Santa this isn't real like he keeps siding with me. It doesn't matter because  he's not he doesn't have a whole home for the child to go to so they're always gonna side They always side with the mother anyways But  they're always gonna side like if in that situation if he looks like he's  Like causing the problem then they're always gonna give it to the to be fair though How do you how would you react if someone you knew very well just dramatically changed your physical appearance in like less than a month's time I would back that Scott Calvin did I would I would excommunicate myself from them.

Yeah, I wouldn't even ask I would have to  I would have to know I would be like what  Happen if something's different like if you showed up and you were different like if you had if you got like a nose job I would never speak to you again. We're not talking about just sorry If you got a nose job in a knee chair, I would never talk to size  Andrew just changed his entire face  If Andrew changed, if Andrew's finger got cut off in an industrial accident, I still wouldn't talk to him because you're not the same person I used to know.

That's fair. I'm glad you're sticking to your guns there. Thank you. But Andrew is a lizard person, so it would grow back almost overnight. lizard person. Well, mmm. Pump the brakes on that one there probably. He has a lizard brain. He does have a lizard brain. , and a lizard pee pee. , he has a cloaca. , it does both at the same time.

, so yeah, baby. So he's so We're just getting to the point in this movie where again, it's getting very sad  they file for like, sole custody, and by they I mean the mom and Neil, and they have to go  to the actual judge, who's overseeing everything, and he talks to the kid, Santa comes in, and he sees Santa at this point.

And he's, ,  talking to the judge, and the judge is like, I got, you know, I got some really sad news. We're gonna, I know it's so close to the holidays, but we're just, we're,  your visitation register is suspended until the first of the year, until you can have a hearing about it. And , at that point, I was like, this is really fucking sad, because this poor guy doesn't really have any control over his situation, what's happening.

He can't just revoke it. His genetics are changing, clearly, into, like, this totally realistic And their reasoning for taking the child is not Even a reason like it because not and because  they're looking at him getting Fatter and growing a beard and the kid thinking that he looks like santa and saying my dad is santa And the kid is going through a phase that, like, it's not  and even though the dad agrees and says, Hey, I'm not Santa, I'm not Santa.

And,  he was just jolly and told his, , and told the judge that, Oh yeah, my dad's Santa. And the judge was like, Oh my God, we can't have, we can't have this six year old having imagination. Can't have that. He may vote Democrat. He, he may, he may not become a STEM child. , so that happens, and that's really fucking sad.

So  we're nearing the end of the movie. There's only like  15 20 minutes left and by this time it's what thanks Almost thanksgiving. It's about christmas time. So he's getting his final preparations ready and   We this all unfolds so quickly. I'm just gonna rip the band aid off and essentially  He goes over What on christmas eve?

No, it was it was thing. It was thanksgiving  Because he had a full month to prepare so it was thanksgiving then that he You goes over and says, let me just say a real goodbye , to my kid. , and  absconds, abducts his own child. , so there's that. , we know it's Thanksgiving. Cause when he goes over there, Bernard randomly shows up too and starts eating the turkey.

He's like, eh, pretty fucking dry. And he says that, , and ,  Scott's like, let me say goodbye to Charlie real quickly, just we'll have a moment to together. And his defense, he does try to like the Charlie is, Charlie's like pressuring him and he's like, I wanna, lemme go with you dad. Lemme go with you dad.

And he asked Bernard, he is like, can I, can I go? He is like, I don't see why not. And then, and even though Bernard is not the person to ask about anything No. The situation, but , he just go ahead and gives it 2 cents. Yeah. So , they go to, they just leave, they go to the fucking North Pole. And like, Neil and the mom come back and they're like, where the fuck are they?

She was a little calm about that. If I was, if roles were reversed and I was in her brain, I would be like, Shit, he's on drugs. He just took our kid and this is the last time I'm gonna see my child. And she goes,  Charlie, Charlie.  She does call the boys in blue though. She does. And , they start, they put out an APB and he's like, they look, he looks like Santa Claus.

He's like,  is he going to stand out? Is he going to have a red suit and a beard?  Like, yeah, actually he would. And then it's funny cause the police chief just looks over him and goes, Hey, , this is, Serious, this is a child abductor like this is who gives a fuck what he looks like you need to  be ready to go So what are they doing the whole time that they're in the North Pole there's Andrew there.

I mean there Whoever take it. I don't they're making upgrades to Santa's suit Slay, uh, you know, preparing for the Christmas season. They're, they have a, the Christmas expedition and he keeps asking the same question that no one answers. He is like, what if I fall off the roof? What if I fall? And they're like, well, we have to wait.

Don't we'll find that out. And  they were like, well, we have a flame retardant suit. Yeah. But I don't know if they ever answered that question. Which I thought was really funny because it started with like a face and hands and like, they blast it with flames and  the suit's fine but the hands and the face are gone.

I was like, that's, that was pretty funny.  And then he just like stares at it and he goes, But what if I fall off the roof? Like it's such a simple question that no one, nobody, no one answered him. Well, but they, we do get an answer because we get to the point where it's time to deliver presidents and  he's in the slave with Charlie and he goes up to comet and he goes, comet, is this a rope?

And the comet goes, and he goes, is this a case I fall off the roof?  Oh, thanks buddy. I really appreciate it. Yeah, the, the commentable thought of it. The herbivore made it for you. Yeah. Cool. So I was glad they had a nice little, yeah, nice little interaction there, but they go off to deliver the presents and when we get up in the air, he, Charlie's showing up and we got, and I met, and we put this in there and we put this in here and then there's, and then there's, there's this.

And let's just say this, when the whole month Charlie just turns into this like,  Amazing intelligent engineer that's just building onto this sleigh that he's never seen before or  He doesn't even know how the propulsion system works. I think he's more of an idea man and less of an executioner Yeah, and you need those people around, you know  I'm sure he executed several elves in the like experiment department.

I'm sure he did Just very efficient if you know what I mean. Yeah, there was several explosions and several lives lost So    This is a story hole that I had a problem with and  they're going through and like I guess we'll just Charlie's gone for what a month.

Yeah, my whole entire month and  Santa knows this and Charlie probably doesn't know as much but Santa knows they're delivering delivering delivering about halfway through their deliveries like hey You want to go to our house?  Police and there's probably people that are looking for me.

Yeah, let's do that. Okay. Let's go as soon as he gets there He goes down the chimney  And he gets fucking caught by the police. And arrested. And arrested. So now we have this completely avoidable situation that's just like, alright, well, , this is our reality now. So we're gonna go there.

You could have seen that one coming there, Scott. I mean, come on. Yeah,  could have just done that last, I don't know. , we also forgot to mention earlier in the movie, , because  someone's gonna be listening and  wanted us to, like,  But do you remember the list that he got?

Oh yeah, , it was about halfway through that transformation. These, , DHL type people show up. It was Federal Express. Federal Express. There were like six giant trucks or like vans, if you will, and they drop off the Naughty Nice List, which is just like boxes upon boxes upon boxes that fill his entire like front foyer and living room.

Yeah, and they told him that they would deliver it. And I wonder, with it being FedEx, do you think it came late? Do you think  that was like December, , 10th? No, it was still warm. It was probably like, It's probably like fall. Yeah, that's what it seemed like fedex. I don't believe it I believe  that was late and then he never checked it and he was just delivering presents the whole time we'll run with that Yeah, and then ,   so he gets arrested he gets arrested and , The police take him in and that's when we get my favorite part of the movie as an adult because North pole has its own army rangers.

It's their own SWAT. Yeah, like their SWAT team It's they're called the elves with periods in between each letter. It stands for the Effective liberating fight squad  and there's nothing that's special about these. They're a little bit older looking  I was joking the whole time. I was like expecting them to come out with like mp5s Like flashbangs.

They just have like very like casual like jetpacks that don't even  make them go that right And they're just like floating and I was waiting for them to like they can't they come over to Charlie and they're like hey Let's get Santa back and I wanted them to hand him a Beretta 9 millimeter and go safety's on your left and like  safety Always off. 

No, but what was funny about that is he'd just been arrested and, , you would think that mom and Neil would have been like, where's Charlie? He's just sitting up on the fucking roof by himself with the reindeer. Yeah. He's just up there sitting on a cold roof covered in snow. No one's even like,  screaming for him or asking for him.

Yeah,  they're not like, even interrogating him. They take him back to just a normal jail cell, and Scott Calvin, that is. , they put him in jail. They're not interrogating him, and while the main They did ask him questions. He was like, he was like, I want you to say your name, Scott Calvin.

He starts listing off all like, the different names. For Santa Claus. Parenthood.  Yeah, yeah. Whatever.  That's the most important question to ask the man that knows who he is. Admit that you're Scott Calvin. Yeah. We know you're not Santa Claus because that can't be real. We don't care about your child.

Don't worry about the child. We want to know that you know that you're not Santa Claus. So, and they put him in a normal jail cell where the one guard on duty that night is asleep at the desk. Just this morbidly  obese. Yeah, just an old man. And he's just like munching on some donuts and  these elves come in with Charlie Well first the elves what they do is they put some , some c4 on the hinges of the door blow it They have all of  their neat gadgets.

They throw in a flashbang grenade Yeah, and then they put two in the chest one in the head of this guy They do it. They do a full Mozambique on him and then they scalp them They scout. Scout. They do take it as a trophy. They put his head on a pike for all the other cops as a warning. No, they actually, I thought they were gonna do something really cool,  as a kid, I thought it was gonna be something more fun than what they did.

They just wrapped the dude up and like where the suit , like giant tinsel. , I didn't understand what was happening and it was, it looked really inappropriate because they were all four of 'em standing around this guy.

in a rolly chair, and they had their hands on their crotch, and there's just like ribbon spilling out of it, and they're going like, and they spin him around while he's in this wheelie chair. , it looked like they were soggy, it looked like they were , soggy biscuiting him, like the whole time.

Their ejaculate was ribbon. Just throw it,  That's exactly what elves would have if they Yeah, so it fits It was a little bit sexual But they are  children, so And they looked way too mischievous and joyful doing it So I thought that was a little weird But all they did was spin him up in the chair and ribbon And then put a donut in his mouth So he probably suffocated Yeah.

I died. , it was more tactful than just like shooting him. Yeah, that's two dead now in this movie. So he, and then they go back to the jail cell and they use the tinsel. To cut through the locks. Which I thought was cool. Yeah. And that's what I was expecting for them to do to the guy.  Like knock him unconscious with some magic or something instead of just spinning him up in a bunch of ribbon.

But They rescue Santa, so now Santa is Also, before we leave this scene, I think maybe the worst line in this movie happened as they were leaving. The guy there was another guy in like the jail cell next to him, he's like, Hey, can I get some of that tinsel?  Hard cut away. It was just like I  Restrict that from my memory.

That was so it was so bad. It was just so that wasn't great It'd be funny as a child. It wasn't if you laugh at that as a child, then you've got you know A shitty life ahead of you shitty life. So check yourself.  They rescue Santa And doesn't he immediately just go back to the family place? Yeah, he goes back to Miller's.

He goes back to where he was to deliver the child. , they have a little heart to heart moment. It's very, you know. Yeah, instead of freaking the fuck out, , they all start. Casually, he casually just walks in with Charlie and the family's like, oh Charlie, I missed you. And it's like, and you can see they're kind of like bug eyed like, how dare you step foot in here?

They don't say it, but like they're just kind of staring.  I would have been like, how did you get out of jail? Did you just like, if I were the mom, I would have fucking smacked him. Yeah. How dare you?  And then, , they have this heart to heart moment where  Charlie's like crying and his dad is like I can't yeah, I've got a I've got to finish the rest of this You need to stay with your mom and Neil and the mom at this point Just her brain just goes to mush and she just immediately is like Santa.

It is you really is you? Yeah, and she just like starts,  you know Freaking out and then she grabs the custody papers and throws them in the fire as the gift to Scott  And then Neil was like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And then he takes a second and like stares. Yeah, that was fucking stupid. It was lame.

I hate his nose close up where his eyes just get big. It is Santa.  It is you so fucking dumb Like  what was the impetus for changing him that happened when he looked cool?  Well, he's a cuck and his wife showed him, but he shakes it off and kind of comes back out of it and he's just like trying to argue like, oh, we can't let Charlie go.

And then , he talks Charlie into like staying because he's , I have, , I have stuff I have to do. I have some responsibility. You have the responsibility to be with your mom. He says something sweet. , it was sweet. Charlie was like, , I can't be selfish. I'll stay here. And, you know, Scott was like, selfish.

You're the only one who would believe in me from the beginning or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. , it was like a little nice moment between them. And then Bernard comes out of nowhere again and he's eating the alfalfa sandwich. And we're just like, Bernard, why aren't you Santa Claus? And it would be a fucking alfalfa sandwich on Christmas Eve.

, Charlie still got that snow globe. Well, when you shake the snow globe. Your dad will come no matter what. He'll be back in a jiffy.  What they're mentioning is, , that his dad is going to now go live at the north pole is what  i'm guessing and so Scott goes off  to deliver the rest of the presents and then immediately as he leaves  He starts shaking the snow globe   you couldn't wait five minutes I thought you were you understood the assignment that you were going to stay with your mom and neil You couldn't give it like 24 hours.

I was halfway to cleveland, buddy Yeah,  and then before he leaves too he drops off the two gifts for  mom and dad for the mom and dad Because neil and her his mom had this heart to heart about like when they stopped believing in santa  what was it? It was a mystery date board game and an Oscar Mayer weenie whistle. Yeah, of course Neil would want a weenie whistle.  That moment where he catches it and he's like, A weenie whistle and he, , puts up to his mouth and blows into it.

 When they were talking about that He was like, yeah when I was three years old. I wanted a weenie whistle and it never came I was like, how do you fucking remember that? And why did you give up that easily in your life? At three years old?

Yeah, three years old. Like come on, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Go make a couple quarters and go buy it. These kids want everything for free these days. Well, Neil taught them that, hey, if you don't get what you want, just give up. Become a therapist. For real.  Psychiatrist. Psychiatrist. Oh, I'm sorry.

That's much different. Quick comment before I forget. I thought it was funny how Scott Calvin always laughed at the fact that they called him a doctor. Yeah. Like Psychiatrist is a doctor. It's a real doctor. You have to go through some pretty, pretty intense, it's medical school. You have to go to medical school.

That's real mental analysis there. It's not. I agree with him. Neil was not a psychiatrist. He was a therapist. He was a shrink. He was a swing. Yeah. Speaking of weenie whistle. Um, so after that happens, , he grabs Charlie and he's like, want to go for a ride? And his mom's like, well,  Okay, fine a quick one so  which Nolan voids their whole conversation in the living room It just wraps everything up.

Also, what about the police?  She ran out, you know after they had that little tender moments like y'all can go home. It's okay, and they're like, yeah We're serving a warrant ma'am. We're going inside your home. Yeah, we've been searching for this dude for months. We're not just gonna call it Yeah, and also  if you cover this up, you're going to jail as well , but anyway, The police go away and all is well.

Like, and that's how this movie is. It's just everything just kind of happens, then it doesn't. And it's, and that's how, And again, we end how we began. He is a father who is working most of the year and has a couple days off with his kid. Now he's just spending it better with his kid. Yeah. Now he's, now he only has to work a couple of days of the year and he has the rest of the year off, yeah.

Also, he doesn't, I don't think his salary is as good as Santa Claus either, so. But he gets to live in the North Pole now, so. Oh, my dream. , the fading images, it shows him and Charlie in the sleigh, and they're leaving, Chicago or wherever they're at. And the mom was like, Like, Scott, don't fly over any oceans.

Yeah, just no oceans, okay? Scott! Scott! And you hear her voice like echo in the Chicago skies as they fly off into the night. That's pretty much it. And that's the Santa Clause. That's it. . So, Andrew,  I want to know,  you saw this as a child many times.

Yeah, yeah. So what was your feeling now as an adult? I mean I have watched it A couple times in the past two or three years. , it's definitely lost the magic. I wouldn't say this movie only works for those who are still in the believing stage if you will But it's definitely more of a kid's movie, you know?

It's very corny and on the nose. Very Disney. It's very Disney, it's very family friendly. , this is a movie that I could be good with  not watching for a while until there's a kid in the picture. You know what I mean? It still brings back good memories. And I'm sure if it was like on , , free form or like AMC, like the day or two before Christmas, I'd probably have it on the background and be okay with it.

Got a free form shout out there. . It's on Disney. So, I don't know how, I don't know what the distribution routes would be on that. It definitely loses its luster a bit and you know looking at it from a different perspective  it's also got a shorter run time than a Christmas story because the Christmas story is what 24 hours?

That's the run time  Yeah, like a wonderful life. Yeah all day. , Kyle, what did, what'd you think as an adult? , I, you know what, this is not the worst Christmas movie that's out there. This is one that I would, no, I would say , it exceeded my expectations. , that's about the best you're gonna get out of me.

I do not like these kind of movies. They are not my thing. , I prefer movies that are a little bit more in the vein of like a real Christmas time.  Like, , National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation or Elf. Or something that has a little bit more of like a Even though those both of those kind of have a  more dark look at Christmas.

 I would say but like , it was good. Yeah, I would watch it again. Not anytime soon  I will say this I I  had trouble with this one  it made sense now reading what Eisner did where he focused purely on Tim Allen They cut a bunch of scenes with Charlie that kind of elaborated more on Charlie's  trouble with his father So to me they were trying to force scott calvin to be this like terrible dad and I never saw that And you were supposed to root for the mom and neil But I don't think we ever but also turn on their mom and it's but it had this dynamic setup and the movie was not written dynamically It was point a to point b.

It was very to the point. Yeah to the point It's just like he's santa claus now. He's santa claus now He's delivering gifts and now he's back with his son,   I never felt any strain  Everything felt kind of slapped together I feel like Disney wanted it to be more on the surface as opposed to really get into the psychological trauma But  I mean in those times like in the 90s a lot of those movies had these  Adult themes because adults were watching them as well.

Yeah, I felt like this one  missed a huge mark I agree there was no conflict resolved I will say though while it did miss that mark I still think that disney wanted to focus on the magic of someone becoming santa claus and how it Encapsulates the young mind which it definitely did and that was that was its purpose but even even in that purpose They didn't I don't think that they ever fully captured it because it was so quick Like I you  know, you didn't see much of  the workshop other than him being in it and that little quick little What was it zz top  give me all your loving Yeah, but it was like that was so quick and  to me it was like I remember this movie as a kid watching it and I do remember some of the scenes I was like, oh wow, I do remember some of this but You I don't know.

I just kind of came out of it very bleh. I think for the adult brain, yes, but the fact that it is superficial. Which is what we're doing. Yes, of course. But I don't know. I know from my little kid brain that I didn't think that deep at all.  It was superficial enough that it did the trick and, you know, made me feel what I felt.

 I would say, I think the both of you need to look at this from a different context because    I would say that , gravity is very real in this one.

I think it's better than Jingle all the way. I would say like, when it comes down to like, what we're talking about in terms of like, this man is going to lose his child. , that scene hit really hard. , as a child from a divorced home, like,  , that hit pretty, pretty fucking real.

And I think that like, when it comes down to like, if we're talking about what this movie was supposed to be,  the art that you make, you don't get to say what it's supposed to be or not supposed to be. You can write it a certain way for sure. And I do agree with the fact that both of you are saying this is more of a point A to point B movie.

Yes, I would say  that's definitely what this is. There's a lot lost in that. And they did miss the mark when it comes to like, making it a little bit more dynamic. But when it does come down to like, how it made you feel, it still made us all feel. sad. Like in the mid, like in that middle section, like, yeah, ,  whether or not they meant or intended it  is irrelevant.

It doesn't matter because that is how you felt about it. So it could have been purported to be more of this kind of movie or that kind of movie. It could have been Nosferatu. It doesn't,  if that's what it made you feel, it was successful in doing something better than, , some of those fucking, you know, Rudolph goes to fuck himself in the sixties movies.

 This is definitely I have that one on blu ray But this is what i'm trying to say is like this is one that like I don't remember as a kid And watching it as an adult. I was like, okay Yeah,  this is touching on some stuff that like they could have gone deeper into they could have made it better I wouldn't say that they missed the mark though.

I think that's a little unfair to the movie But again your opinion I get it, but I just wanted to say that I want to add though that , I do say it missed the mark, but it's because I know that there is more to this movie sitting on the cutting room floor that they made as art and that A CEO decided, I'm gonna cut that up and just to put more Tim Allen in there.

And there's probably more in depth pieces to , that story with Tim Allen and his son and, and  adding to that, I, , there's a stark difference. , and how I felt watching it now to when I watched it like 10, 15 years ago. Yeah. And I think it,  you know, it's still a good movie. This is not me saying, , it's a piece of shit or don't waste your time.

 I feel if they had gotten a little deeper into those marks you were talking about, Right. It would have been a little bit stronger. It would have hit me just a little bit more. That's what I'm saying. You know? It's like, I want to see what  they had written and what's on the cutting room floor.

I want to see the, like, the director's cut and just see. Yeah, but like, yeah, but, but. Just out of curiosity.  Devil's advocate here.  How many of our favorite movies would have been that much better if they would have left all that shit in?   The newest Star Wars, the original Jurassic Park, , if they just hadn't made the last two Indiana Jones.

, there's so many things that, like, we can sit here. They just left a whole movie on the cutting room. They should have just left it all there. They shouldn't have even made it. But, like, we don't get the luxury when we see these the first time through to know what's going on.  And while I do  like that we do this on this podcast to go through and be like, this is what was, this is what was supposed to happen.

Did you know this? Do we not know this? We didn't know any of that when we saw it. So looking at it through that lens of knowing all this stuff   it's not unfair, but , I would say that for this movie to not necessarily impress me, but for me to be able to get through this movie and go, I did not hate this movie and I hate Christmas movies.

I hate them.  I thought this one didn't harp too much on the capitalistic side. It didn't really harp too much on the gifts. It harped on a man wanting to be with his kid and like supporting his child and  not letting the world  and  everything beat him down to A mindless robot like have your imagination.

I support you in this even though the santa claus bullshit aside like that, I thought that  him fighting for his child and being very much like  willing to like, okay, I'm not, I just won't see you for the holidays, even though I had this newfound power that like, I still want to share this.

I still want to be a family. Like , those little tidbits in there, I think do make this a movie that is  not a movie that missed the mark. That probably would have been a lot better if we would have been able to keep this stuff in. But I just want to put that out there that like, , that's more so, , my point of view with it.

 I'm glad you have such strong feelings about Tim Allen's the Santa Claus. Bravo. , Kyle, does it hold up? I would say it does hold up. I would say that this is a, , it's right on the cusp because like, if it's a Christmas movie and unless it's a certain kind of Christmas movie, it's for me, it's never going to hold up just because I don't enjoy them.

, I would say this, like this just barely holds up just barely. Andrew, what do you think? Yeah. Yeah, I do. , there's in my opinion, none, but It's got a ton of meat to it, but not at all.  It holds up,  it's not a , poorly written movie. There's a couple cringey moments, but like you watch it and you don't feel like you, you waste your time.

And like I said, the nostalgic factor is , still, , factors in for me and you know, I will always have a soft spot for this movie. But yeah, it holds up.  I went back and forth. ,  I'm going to say it holds up but barely  Yeah, I would agree. 

It's a breezy movie to watch There's nothing too insane in it. , there's a couple of good laughs, but  I probably wouldn't go back and re watch this multiple times   before we get out of here and before we get to the IMDb ratings, let's talk about the sequels.

Oh, there's two. There's three. Three sequels. Let's start. There's two. There's Santa Claus two and then Santa Claus three. Which he started all of them. Yeah. And I don't want to get too far into these because that could be its own episode.  I think I saw, which one had Jack Frost in it?

That was the second one. Martin Short was Jack Frost. Martin Short. Yeah. And then I don't remember the second one at all. The second one,  , it's.  Teenage Charlie, same actor who plays young Charlie, and he's like rebelling against  Santa Claus. I remember like The opening scene is like him in the gym like spray painting graffiti  It was like a It was like he drew like a Christmas tree and drew like the red circle with a line through it over the tree Yeah, he's very much like rebelling against Santa Claus and because he can't live a normal life because everyone knows his dad is Santa Claus or whatever.

. I think I did see that. I didn't remember anything about it. And the only thing I remember about the third one is Martin Short is Jack Frost. Yeah.  That one is a distant memory, but I do vividly remember the second one. So this movie was popular enough.

And as you said earlier, like what did it make?  At the box office like 200 million of a billion dollars. 190 million worldwide. So, of course, they were gonna make some sequels and it became a family favorite trilogy around the holidays I had one question I wanted to ask both of you and I thought it was pertinent to this  How old were you when you stopped believing in Santa Claus?

I don't remember but I was probably closer to like 9 or 10. Do you all remember the moment?  I want to share mine, but I wasn't sure if you remember the moment or the age. I do not.  I think like most kids it just it started trickling around school  and then it just got to a point to where I was like, this is stupid Like,  you're just your brain just cuts on doesn't make any sense Yeah, I was 10 years old and we always have christmas at my mimi's house in south carolina And I remember, , there would always be sleigh bells that would be heard You know, on Christmas Eve, while we're eating our Christmas Eve dinner, or watching a movie, and it sounded very real, and, you know, young, stupid me was duped into believing it was real every single time.

And then one moment, one, one night, I was just curious, and I decided to follow the sound, or  leave the room after the sound was made. And I went around to  the upstairs door to  the bedroom upstairs and I opened it and I saw a giant thing of sleigh bells laying on the stairs and I shook it and I went back to walk back in the room my parents and My Mimi were staring at me because they knew and I knew at that point I was like, yeah, it wasn't Santa Claus It was you fucking sneaking away and shaking that did you break down and cry?

No, I didn't I wasn't bothered at all I was like, oh, okay Okay, that's when you realized capitalism was real. Yes.  All the signs started just to appear and make themselves known at that point. I think mine my transition wasn't that abrupt That's not at all story But like it but it was just kind of a great I think most kids it is a gradual kind of like as you get Older you're like, wait a minute.

It doesn't really make any sense. And I remember my mother At that point, because I questioned her, like, in the coming days, and she goes, Well, Santa Claus isn't a physical entity. He's more of a feeling or a spirit. And at that point, I was like, Bullshit, guys. All right, Neil. It's over. All right. Yeah, Neil.

Well, what about the IMDb ratings? , do you know what it is, Andrew?  I think I have an idea. I think I remember looking at it, but I'm not entirely sure let's double check that Kyle What do you what would wait until after Kyle? What would you give this? What would I give it or what?

I think it is. What would you get? Well, I would I would give this movie like a six point  6. 2. That's really high for Kyle in a Christmas movie. , that's gonna be pretty up there. I was gonna say 6. 1. I'm gonna go 5. 4. Okay.  I think that, that's fair. Let's look it up. , I think it's in the high sixes, .

Let's see here. It is, yep, 6. 6. 6. 6. Wow. That's really high. I, you know, and teach his own, you know. Yeah, I mean like this is definitely any I get like we said anything like above Like what a 5. 5 is gonna be pretty Watchable ish.  The biggest thing about this movie, too, is it's a Christmas movie. You can put on in the background, it breezes by. You don't have to pay attention to every bit of it because it is so point A to point B.

I wish there were more laughs. , considering it's Tim Allen, a comedy figure, as the lead. , I feel like people listening to this might think that, , I'm shitting on this movie in some capacity, but I'm not. I just wish it was just a little bit more. I think that's my takeaway.

 I still love it and it will always have a special place in my heart, but. Yeah. I wish I had a little bit more. Yeah, absolutely. But still not as much. A waste of time by any means  well that wraps up this holiday season We just reached into your childhood christmas banks and pulled out the santa claus and found out it holds up So I'm going to wrap it in tinsel, put it right back in your brain.  Remember to always follow us on social media to find out what movie we're doing next or play a role in picking the movie that we do in the future.

Kyle, do you know what we're doing next?  We're going to be doing,  he doesn't know everybody, but , stay tuned and you'll find out first.  We hope you have a wonderful holiday season.