Happy Halloween everybody and welcome to Hold Up, the show where we dive deep inside your childhood nightmares, pull the movies from your past out to see if they truly hold up. And today, I am holed up with two spooky individuals themselves, Kyle and Andrew. 

Ooh, spooky. Hello everybody.  You sound spooky. I am very spooked out, guys. You look spooky. You're dressed in all black, too. I am. It's just a choice. That was choice, wasn't it?  I'm really into the goth lifestyle. Absolutely.  I do think the mood of black is very fitting for today's film.

 Today we are tackling The Blair Witch Project. Ooh, spooky. Talk about spooky. 

But Kyle,  one last time, man. Tell us your energy level  in Halloween candy form.  All right, so  When you go and you get that really prime time  Bag of Skittles or  Something akin to an M& M. Primetime, huh? Primetime. Yeah.  And , you tear open the side and you're just munching on them. You got those peanut M& Ms and you got them,  rifling through them, putting them in your hand, eating them.

And you twirl them back up, you put it in your pocket. And then the day goes by and you've forgotten that they're in there. And you pull them out and they're  congealed mass of disappointment and sadness with a little bit of pocket lint.  And completely inedible. Yeah. Yeah. For the treat you were looking to munch on, on the ride home, on the train.

That's the, that's it. That's where we're at today. I hope that somebody can  relate. That was really descriptive. Yeah. I think that was on the back of the Blair Witch Project box too. It was. That's exactly, I mean, that's how I felt while I watched it. Yeah. You took me places. I went on a journey just then.

 So that means , you're okay. I'm doing great. Yeah, yeah, really good. It's a better day. What is your favorite Halloween candy? Snickers. Snickers. Ew, huh? Go fuck yourself. Yeah. No thanks, I don't want to do that. I know, because you don't like Most Halloween candy, Andrew, you won't like because it has  chocolate in it.

Added sugars! Fuck off.  He likes Starburst. You'll eat Starburst. Yeah, of course. Uh, uh, uh, uh, something peanut butter, like a payday? No. Why? Fuck paydays. What's wrong with you? That's like an old man candy. It is not an old man candy. I will settle that that is not an old man candy. man candy. Fuck Werther's Originals.

Okay. Again, old man, old woman candy. No thanks. That's what I'm saying, Werther's Originals is an old person candy. Yeah, they both are. They are not both. Yeah, they're on the same plane for me, . I think you're getting voted down here, son. I don't care. This is my world. You're just living in it. What I say goes.

What is your favorite Halloween candy?  Probably something like Smarties or Smarties? Smarties or Starbursts or Yeah, I don't fucking like chocolate, so. Oh my god, Smarties. That's what you get at the dentist office. That's exactly You get it on your Halloween bag, too. Here's some powdered talcum and some, , some Tums.

Yeah, what else am I supposed to fucking say then, smartass? I don't know, you have something with caramel in it. No, I don't like caramel, I don't like chocolate, . What about Skittles? Yeah, I love Skittles, absolutely. I love Skittles as well. Sweet Tarts, Smarties, Skittles, Starburst, , something in that vein.

Airheads. What is your least favorite like if I gave it to you now you would throw up and run out of this room screaming Snickers,  okay, that seems aggressive. I don't I would have said almond joy. He doesn't like chocolate anything with chocolate He just he's just not gonna almond joy is the worst. Can we yeah, that's fucking disgusting No, that doesn't need to be in anybody's palate.

And if you have that kind of palate, you're unsophisticated swine   Do you guys remember when you went trick or treating? Did you ever get like the stupid little toys? And that were  like candy toys like it'd be like a maze watch and you would put the watch on you would snap your Wrist trying to get the like a little marble.

Yes. It was like a little trinket It was a little trinket they'd give you in your little Halloween box Like we don't believe in added sugar because it causes tooth decay and overweight, right? You can have some and not this  And that's where we're getting into this nostalgia part of this show I think every 90s kid remembers getting that and they would be like, what the fuck is this?

Like why would I remember the maze the little bead in it and you're like what? yeah, that would be on the watch and then like you would and the only way you would get it is you'd have to rotate your  Wrist and in like a non anatomical way to get the bead all the way through But if you did get it through it was fairly satisfying.

, that watch was  the death , of all children in the nineties.

And speaking of death of all children of the nineties, let's talk about the Blair Witch Project. I love it.  Came out in 1999. Let's start with you, Kyle, because me and you are older than this fetus over here. So  what do you remember about the Blair Witch Project? And it's Going to be hard because I think you and I were both eight years old when this came out Yeah, so this is a movie that like when it first came out.

I didn't see it. You didn't see it  it was in theaters And it was like, R, you're not like,  it's very frightening. And all parents probably saw was, oh my god, there's probably some kind of Antichrist thing in here. This is the worst thing.  I remember the first time I watched this movie, I was a child. I was like 16 or 17 years old. And by the way, my definition of a child is anybody below the age of like 21, 23 area. , 

you can't really do much. You don't really know much. You got, you can serve your country and die for it, but like you can't buy a drink. You're in school. Usually.  Most kids are kids until they're out of college. So  I classify anything under that , as a child.

I was definitely a child when I saw this, like 16 years old, like maybe 16 years old. About to get my driver's license like very young and I remember This is right when we'd like gotten a new computer  because my mother worked from home. She was a Healthcare communications,  specialist and she had her own like laptop area her own computer area  for whatever reason we put the itunes on her computer so we couldn't watch on the fun computer so me and my friend had to like I had, I remember I got,  , like an iTunes gift certificate for, , for my birthday.

Cause that's when iTunes is getting popular. Like 2006 is when I watched this. I put that in there and I was scrolling through and I was like, Oh, the Blair Witch Project. Cause me and my friend, Alex, Alex Cruz, shout out. What's up? , Alex. Hope you're listening.  He's for sure listening. He is listening.

Yeah,  he'll listen. He'll listen you choo choo  So here's looking to you Alex. So we had already watched Amityville horror. We thought that was pretty scary  and that was the old one and my friend Adam and we had watched that with as well and  We had been we'd been kind of watching scary movies like the ring and stuff like that We were kind of working our way up and So this is like the next level and we  put that on my mom's I've gotta ask.

Yes. The Ring, did you watch the Japanese one, or were you watching the American version? No, we watched the American version. Yes. Yes. No, this wasn't, we were The Japanese one takes it to the next level. I'm, I've heard That may be one of the scariest movies I've ever seen in my entire life. , I will say, the American version was plenty scary enough.

 I remember We had decided that we wanted to watch a scary movie  but we couldn't watch it on our TV in the basement because there was no copy of it. And I had the copy downloaded to iTunes. So we decided to go into my mom's work office on two rolly chairs and sit down and watch an hour and a half long movie in the dark.

We closed the closet and we sat there and we were absolutely riveted. And like the first little bit of it is  boring if you're like, you know, younger, you're just kind of like, well, these what's going on right now? They're just goofing around, horsing around kind of thing.

But  it gets real pretty quick. And there's one scene in  in this movie where it's just like, you're like, Oh, okay, this is really not fun. This is very uncomfortable now. Yeah. And it just goes downhill from there. And I remember when we were done watching this movie, turn on the lights, and we both just looked like gaunt.

, our eyes are sunken in. Like, we were like, what the fuck did we watch? As soon as we were done watching this, Alex was like, , we need to look this up. Like, we need to go, we need to look this up. So we got on the internet, and we looked it up, and we found a page that was like, this is all real.

Everything that happened was real. They don't know. And when you're that young and impressionable and you're not into film very much, like, yes, this is, this is real. If you, if you look at this now, anybody who has a, an amateur eye for film will tell that like, this is obviously not real because it's edited very well.

There's just, there's clearly a shot list of what's going on. , but, for most of the population back in the 90s, not really that popular into filmmaking, it's, in general, it passed, and it really fucked people's shit up. I would say I didn't know when we were going to talk about this But I say we just go ahead and dive in now since you brought it up  This movie  Started the viral marketing campaign we know as the know today.

 It's pretty impressive Incredibly because they create a website and this is back when the internet was a fairly new thing a lot of people didn't have access to the internet  I know our family didn't And if you did, it was dial up and you, and it was like 40 minutes to log on. And then your dad would pick up the phone to call it a pizza and log you back off.

And then you had to spend all night getting back on earth link. Yeah.  Net zero. , I remember  the website was just the missing persons poster. And then they, they marketed this  around the world as a real story. and they didn't have to do much. It was just all missing persons report.

, these events are true. Find out what happened to, the hikers that went missing in the Blair Witch, which is not a real thing. , the Blair Witch is a made up story by the producers themselves.  , it does Venn diagram over into like the Salem Witch trials and stuff like that.

And the Bell Witch. Yes. I think it is modeled after the Bell Witch in Tennessee, which was the first.  paranormal homicide out there. , I'm not too familiar with the story. I used to know more and I've dumped that in my memory bank, but,  I forgot the guy's name, but he was tormented by an entity  and eventually had a heart attack and his family.

And even, I think it even went down in the,  Obituary as he was killed by the bell witch.   No one had done a marketing campaign quite like this before. They say it was the first movie to use the internet to market itself. Exactly. , 1999, that's a new thing. , and it created websites.  I think they even sent out, instead of the movie poster, the movie poster was missing persons reports that  sent out.

So they garnered a lot of, , Success through people not knowing  and you thought going into the theater And this is a naive mind because  there's so much illegal red tape that would go through showing like people dying on film but You'd never know and so people thought that they were watching like  this is from the FBI's desk this they released the film of what happened to these kids and That's what scared a lot of people more than anything You And I do want to correct something I hear people say this all the time that it's the first found footage film It is not and it's not even the first found footage horror film either. 

So Cannibal holocaust in the 70s. Yep. Yeah is the first found footage horror film and this movie actually takes a lot of liberties from that There was also an orson welles  movie from the 60s that was filmed, that was found footage, and considered well ahead of its time. 

It didn't even release until the late 70s,  there's several films before this. This was not the first found footage film. And even I think the last signal came out in the, like a couple years before this, that was found footage.

 This movie didn't revolutionize the found footage part of it as much as it revolutionized taking a fictional story and pushing it into the fourth dimension.  They did that very well. And that created the success of this movie, I believe. If this movie was released, same movie, released now  You don't have the success because like we can google it  we can tweet about it We understand it is fictional and and you have to put it on that lens of like when you go in in the 90s Watching this like am I watching something real and that's a what a lot of people thought for a very long time I mean to be fair though It still does feel real when you're watching it just by how it was shot and how it was made obviously You know, it's not but  You're transported there.

Exactly.   This film has a lot of interesting nuggets with the production. So many layers. So many layers.

, but , they filmed it where these kids just took the cameras and filmed it themselves and improved all the dialogue. All of it was improvised. They had like, what, GPS signals? They had GPS signals that they had to use to find little like, milk cartons that had , easter eggs or  prompts within them.

It'd be like, this is what you gotta do, this is where you gotta go, act it out, we'll see you tomorrow. And they would film themselves over a course of hours acting out these scenes or these prompts that were laid out by them, by the producers and directors. , it wasn't They didn't necessarily improvise, they gave them a skeleton script with points that they needed to hit, and then they improvised the dialogue around that.

 80 hours of dialogue was improvised. That's incredibly impressive.  The script itself was 35 pages. Yes. Nice.  The milk crates too, and I read where, , Donahue, the main girl in the film,  heather. Heather.

 She said that. When they were going and you got to the crates and you found it, they would tell you what your next move is, how you're supposed to feel and act,  but you're not supposed to reveal that to the other actors. So they were really playing off of each other and the two that got into the arguments the most Heather and Mike  They were supposed to be it wits in the whole time But it was actually Heather and the other guy that had a lot of  falling out.

They did have a secret code It was  taco. They would say taco to each other if they need to break character and start over 

190 minutes was the I think the original cut and it took him eight months to edit all of that I can't I cannot imagine how hard it would be to take that footage and edit that out of it I mean they have some incredible performances acting wise like this is i'm gonna say this now  knowing i'm gonna get so much shit for this, but this is Personally,  I think there's an argument to be made that this is one of the best acted horror movies because  the visuals are very limited.

 You only see really two things. It's a one location shoot. Yeah, one location shoot, you only see two instances, or two scenes that you actually have a visual of something that's skin crawling. And they did that on purpose. They did that, the director did that on purpose, he took it from Jaws, obviously you see Jaws but not until towards the end, yeah.

Yeah. And the whole idea of not knowing what this entity is or what you're dealing with creates that suspense and that stress and they played on that through the entire fucking movie, essentially.  But, yeah, and I do think that like this, it would not be good if it was not well acted.  There's no point in that where I'm like, I don't believe them. I believe everything. Everything. Very much. And that's, that's a hard, that's hard to do. And it doesn't have to be Shakespearean text either.

No, no. It was so real and you believed every second. Repetitive and like, and just there were certain things that were just very, like you can tell that they were in it. They were in that shit and they were tired and they were cold and they were hungry because they were it was almost a form Of method acting at that point.

Well, they literally was it's funny You mentioned that too because I did read a fact today. That was very interesting. They actually limited their food day by day So they did  create that environment for them of which again acting again And here's the thing folks take it from two people that went to a church You know, School of the Arts.

Yeah, no. For sure, bro. Carnegie Mellon. Carnegie Mellon. Like, that, that makes your job a lot easier as an actor when you have that stuff provided for you. 

They took advantage of something that didn't exist at that point, and they really wrapped everybody around their finger with that, and , I think that nowadays,  what could you do that with, like, how, what would you, I mean, like, I feel like there's a way to do it,  I think my brother spoke to it, because he was a teenager when it came out, so he got bought into the hype, and he, I remember him and my cousin talking at length about, I don't know if this is real or not, and that's how I knew about Blair Witch Project,  obviously we weren't gonna go see it, my parents weren't gonna let us go see it, but  I was following through my brother's footsteps, and I could hear the curiosity, and I was thinking to myself too, as a kid, Child.

I mean, I was eight years old. I had enough grasp on the real world to understand that we may be watching a murder.  I remember my brother found out through a kid at school  that had the internet like  at his disposal, found some debunking websites eventually.

  So I never got caught in that,  craze or frenzy of yeah I meant to say andrew tell us about your nostalgia. It was in the fourth grade when I first watched this jesus christ 10 years old Jesus christ, , my buddy you saw this in what 2003?

Yeah, jesus christ. My buddy,  was a big cinephile loved movies. He watched a lot of , more mature things , than me at that age. A xenophile at 10. I mean, he literally was obsessed with movies. I believe you, it's just a funny image. I have him in a smoking jacket drinking a glass of wine.

Watching, , one who flew over a cuckoo's nest. He had, he had watched The Ring. He had watched,  like some of the, like the first Saws. Like he was, his parents didn't care. But he came over one night. I would say so. , great dude. , I haven't talked to him in years, but love that guy. ,  Is he in prison now?

No, I think he lives in D. C. , I hope he's doing well. If you're listening, Evan, what's up?  Uh, he was like, let's watch a scary movie, cause I think we watched it , in , October. And I was like, okay, cool,  and we went to Blockbuster or like Family Video and we rented the Blair Witch Project one Friday night or Saturday night.

, should we pour one out for Family Video? You don't,, you never hear very many people that are like They're still around though. They are. Are they still operating? They're still in Jasper, Indiana, baby.  Jasper, Indiana. But yeah, we, he was like, let's watch the Blair Witch Project, because I think that the thought was like, I don't want to watch something super scary, and he was like, I think this one will be okay. Because I don't think he had seen it yet, and we went up to my room,   it was starting to get dark at that point. my room was darker than most of the house because I had big old shades, , blackout curtains, if you will.

So it was, the mood was already dark and creepy. We put it in, we watched it, and  I just remember being like, Terrified, , 

we finished it, and as soon as we were done, we ran into my parents room because I think we finished it like after midnight. Did your parents get mad at you? No, no. They didn't care, so I ran into the room and like My mom would have been pissed.  My parents go to bed late. As it is, so like they had just gone to bed like 30 minutes ago or something like that, you know.

I mean, my mom would have been pissed that I watched it and got scared. Now she's got to deal with the aftermath. Well, I did hear about that the next day, but my mom is so sweet and kind. She was like, why did you, why did you have to watch something that dark, Andrew? 

What's your, what's your mom's name? Grace. Grace. Shout out to you, Miss Grace. Sound like a wonderful parent. She is. She is a great person. We were so terrified that. We  I don't even think we got ready for bed. We just went to my parents had a bunk bed in the room We just slept in the bunk bed  

, I related it to it so much more because, I was in Boy Scouts.

I had been camping. I had been in the outdoors a number of times. And if you've ever had any sort of situation out in the wilderness and the desolate,  rural area, like this movie hits home even harder. 

 , I got to watch a lot of shit. I shouldn't be watching through my brother. ,  I remember being so curious by, but , I was a scared child too. So  I really didn't want to watch it.

, I was just scared thinking about it. And then when I was like 17, 18, I was like, Oh yeah, Blair Witch. I'm going to watch it. And I'll go ahead and mirror my experience there. , it was not good. I literally watched it and was unfazed by it.   This is pre  me falling in love with movies , and like studying film and all this stuff.

Can you see my face right now? I'm shocked. I'm like, I'm surprised. I was too at the time, , you know, it's sometimes it's all about headspace too.  Didn't even blink an eye at it. And I was like, okay, that was awful. And moved on and I'm just telling you that to  give you that was my first experience , we'll talk about at the end of the episode my Second experience   Well moving on here    Andrew since it's fresh on your brain, , you've watched it How many times in your lifetime three or four times? I think this is my fourth or fifth time Yeah,  now it's your chance to give this audience members.

They're juicy juicy numbers. Okay, so there are Halloween plump numbers the  Budget that's listed here on box office. Do we need to guess?  Yeah, you can guess it's incorrect though. I'm gonna say that right now, but the budget's incorrect Yes, it is the budget on there that you're about to read is incorrect Yes, it is.

Then why are we gonna because  this is  the original budget They had to go back and do things  To make edits and so so original budget first Kyle. What do you think this movie was budgeted at? ,  There were two cameras. Three cameras, I think. I think there were three, yeah.

They only shot on two though, didn't they? Yeah, but they returned one of them to Circuit City. That's right. I'm not even fucking with you.  That was a fact I read that they returned one of the cameras and sold the other one. Interesting. . So , this budget is a lie. , if we're, okay, so we're talking about total budget, not pre production, not production.

. All of it. All of This is before. I'm gonna say it's definitely under a million. I'm gonna say high end  not including marketing  High end, I'm gonna say a hundred thousand Chase I Feel like it's gonna have a bigger budget than that, but it shouldn't it should for some reason my first guess would be 5, 000 It honestly it feels like it should be 5, 000.

I'm gonna say with editing and shit 250, 000. That's a good guess. So, the original budget, and it,  they originally,  Put up 35, 000 for it and then they had to  move closer to 60, 000 That was the original budget, but then after final cosp after post production edits and stuff like that , it was started out at 200, 000 and then it made its way all the way to  750, 000 That was probably after Or you could make that movie for a thousand dollars.

Anyone investors listening out there, let's go. That was probably before Artisan, that was probably right around when Artisan Entertainment bought it and they went back and changed some things because the ending, it was always the same, but they went back and changed some things after it was purchased.

They did. I also noticed today that, , the credits rolled.  The credits did not roll in the original. And that's changed since I watched this on iTunes. I've had this on my iTunes for forever, and I watched it today on the same iTunes account. You can thank Lionsgate for that, because they got fucking sued.

And they should be sued, but we'll get into that later.  But the original budget of just the two dudes from, what was the name of the film company? Hackson. Hackson. It was around 60, 000.  But then post production credits and then When they sold it to artist entertainment, you know skyrocketed all the way up to 750 750 interesting thousand.

 This one i'm stumped on is guessing what it made domestically Because  i'm sure that they Raked it in. Yeah, you're right. Domestically, , they raked in about 140 million. Damn. And then add on another 108 million. Internationally, it's almost 250 million altogether. On less than a million dollar budget.

On less than a million dollar budget. That is fucking insane. I mean, and Great return on investment there. ,  they think this is the highest grossing indie film of all time.   Let's, uh, this is going to be quick. This is going to be the quickest blow by blow.

We're not going to talk much about it. There's a lot going on. , there's a couple, there's like four scenes to talk about essentially.    Alright, Andrew, let's get started. Lead the way and we're gonna talk about the Blair Witch Project. What happens first in this film? It's not the most memorable beginning. They set up the idea that they're doing a documentary so yeah, and I wanted to Say this because you both talked about it's kind of boring at the beginning the beginning.

I loved because I love  them trying to  Establish this fake folklore in this town. It's mainly this Heather girl She's leading the way on this and leading the charge and she's got two other guys with them And she's they're making a documentary about the Blair witch  for their film class for their film class.

Yeah, whatever community college they go to yeah And they're just like we're just gonna like and they think it's gonna be a fun time they're just gonna be it's for a class camping  and staying in a hotel and You It's gonna be a quick shoot and then they can get  their a I think they were in film school But yeah, so  they go to the small town where the blair witch is and they're interviewing the townsfolk and This was the realest  part of it to me because the people that they're interviewing Some of them were actual citizens Some of them were paid actors, but they weren't told that.

But some of them were just random dudes off the street. Right, , the actors did not know that these people were paid actors. They actually thought that they were interviewing townsfolk that had a couple cue cards. , it gives this real, Just bare bones snuff almost style of documentary Like something we would shoot if we just go out on the street right now and interview people about random stuff , there's one scene and I remember it vividly and I remembered it the last time too is a  Middle aged mom and she's like holding her baby and the baby keeps like putting her mouth But covering her mouth as she's trying to tell a creepy story and the mom goes with it and it's actually very creepy And it's very unsettling That's the selling point in that whole beginning scene with all of that, like,   the main selling point in that first scene that gives us exposition that's like  Okay, we're not they're not fucking around with this like I don't go up there I'm, not i'm not going up there like I know about I know enough enough to not go up there or opposite sides like do you believe in this and they're like no are you a god fearing man?

Yeah, damn, right. I am. All right, and  that's what I loved about this opening Scene is and in this this is like You  20 minutes of this is just them interviewing different people , and traveling around. , a lot of this movie and the opening scenes and a lot of the movie in general is just B roll.

The shots itself is not what you focus on. It's the dialogue and the character interactions. So during the first 20 minutes of this movie it is  scenes of them driving scenes of them in a hotel room taking shots and you see the camaraderie there and  you also see The way they interact with each other the film the film crew.

It's like they're not really friends They're just kind of doing this together because they're   Nervous with each other, but they're also  You know like oh, we've got a greater good like and then they're they're taking shots of whiskey And then they're out interviewing other people And some of the people are just like, yeah, I mean, there's stuff in the woods, I guess.

, , and they're getting like , these people that I,  I feel like I knew growing up. And like, in a lot of horror films, I feel like, fuck it up. Because it gets these people like, don't you dare go on that hill. Don't you do it. And the guy's got like five eyes. And , he's got a toddler hanging off his like thigh.

, how they depict, , country people in, , rural areas. , they depict them as just inbred imbeciles. Stereotypical bullshit. Yeah. , that are super God fearing. Some of them are like, yeah, it's just a story. And it set the tone for , this could be real because these are people I interact with every day, 

yeah. .  I love this opening 20 minutes So they talked to a number of people, , obviously mixed reviews mixed things.  They talked to one guy Who discusses someone named Rustin Parr, who was a man who lived up in the mountains in a cabin by himself. And apparently he had lured seven children  into his, , lair and killed them all.

Yeah, into his house. Into his house, yes.  I think , the idea was that he was, Entranced by the Blair Witch or whatever, possessed if you will, but he would put one in a corner and it would face away while he would kill two like next to him.

 He would have one not in the corner, the other one looking in the corner because he couldn't have the eyes watching while he did it. So they would have, and also did you notice the number of children? Seven. Which is Andrew? Seven.  Yeah, it's a number, but what kind of number is it? It's the divine number.

It's a divine number. It's the holy numbers. So it's an affront to God.  Looking at that now that I'm older and we know about a lot of this other stuff that like, , especially with religion and  certain signs  seven would be an affront to God.

, like in the conjuring when they knock three times. Well, that's the Father, Son, Holy Ghost. , that to me now watching it again was another layer that I was like, that's, I like that. That's, that, that sells a little bit more for me because that's, that makes it more realistic. 

And another layer that's not as, , obvious as the number seven, but Rustin Parr was a near anagram for Rasputin.  That was, that was, that was the creators, , brainchild, if you will.  They talked to other, , people as well.  There was another story about a woman. Who was banished, , named Ellie Kedward, , and she was, what a name, she was supposed to be like the Blair Witch who was banished out of Blair Township in 1785 for witchcraft. And that was another near anagram for someone named Edward Kelly.

Who was like a 16th century mystic, some like weird dude who dabbled in the occult and did some crazy weird shit back when,  Roman Catholicism , was at its peak. And this is where it goes back to where they're building a story, but they're tying it into true facts.   , or, , other folklore And it makes it feel real.

Yes And then I think the realest part was when they spoke to that old woman who lived in the trailer Oh, what was her name? Oh, what was her name? Marry something. Marry something and  she was weird Like she was very that was the one thing that did scare me because I was like she looks like a witch She was someone that  you knew of but  avoided at all costs in her hometown   I think her description of what she experienced In her interview that they got with her.

I think we should talk about that So do you remember what she said? She said that she was approached in the woods by somebody who looked like their feet was levitating They didn't like that. They were walking in she had black fur black hair like a horse like a horse on her On her arms and and then what did she do next and then she opened up her robe and it was the body of a Female and but it was all black fur black hair like a horse hair And I remember hearing that when I was 10 years old and like being really freaked out.

I was like, okay, so that's really This is real. This is believable. This is scary as shit. Scary shit because  that chick is like  You know all the other stuff that she's got like this notebook and she's rocking and stuff But she's telling it with clarity and then right after that scenes done They start talking about like yeah, and she's also like, you know professional ballerina Yeah, and she's also like working with the Department of Energy on some new fuel source  like bat shit crazy kind of stuff, but  that doesn't sound bat shit crazy Yeah, but to them it does because of the context that they have and this isn't real to them This is just an urban legend and that starts selling it even more that  this is something they probably shouldn't fuck around with That doesn't sound like, here we go.

 Think about all the folklore tales you've heard in,  rural parts of the country.  We had folklore legends like that, but  , they didn't hammer anything specific over your head. It's just like everyone had their own story and they were all different.

And they didn't necessarily tie together other than.  Shits going down in these woods So that also makes it real because  if this movie was made today  those interviews Everyone would be telling the same story in the same fashion.

You had that boy. He murdered his family, you know And then and then I was like, yeah, you're you're talking about the  old Johnson kid Yeah, I moved into that old house. Yeah, I'm all those people. Yeah, and he was he used that axe and it's on the wall  Yeah, and he's like in the axe and it'll cut and it'll be like the axe on the wall was missing that It's like okay.

All right, you all have the same story to tell and it makes it feel more written  This made it feel like it made it feel like the environment was alive Like, the woods itself was there, the folklore's there,  There's something about a found footage film that they miss on.

Nine times out of ten, and it's just making it feel like it's found footage. Like, anybody can go grab a  camera and just start shaking it around, repeatedly, and being like, And that and that's kind of where found footage goes It's like oh i'm making a documentary and they shake the camera But they don't know how to make it feel like an actual documentary and this one  for its age and being Early on found footage because I mean even though it wasn't the first it was still that wasn't um, that was filming process They did very often.

Now this first 30 minutes does just such a great job and I bet I could cut that  And show it to people that haven't seen it and they would think it's just a backwards documentary That's that some kids made they would not know the difference.  If you go into this movie believing it's real this first half You Has you convinced   that's where it had me the most I will say that the first 30 minutes of this movie had me the most 

 I do agree with you on jace that like the first 30 minutes like feels like a  Real documentary. Yeah. Like the mock, you can throw the mock out and it's just it's just documentary.

 They want it to be as real and minimalistic as possible. I mean it felt more real than anything I've ever seen on ghost adventures with that piece of shit. Yeah. Oh, no, that's real. It's all real Chase. Yeah,  I felt something  Come at me you piece of shit ghost.

Come at me. I'll beat you up He literally said that once. One day when we start tackling episodes on this podcast for , everyone out there that's listening, upvote this or comment and do whatever, send us some mail or a carrier pigeon. If you want us to do this Or an owl. This episode of Ghost Adventures where he tries to fuck a ghost, we'll review that, but like That sounds like fun.

Moving on. , Kyle, , they get to the woods. They start camping.  They start their camping and they're, the whole, this, a lot of this hinges around  Heather having control of the map. And she knows where she's going. And, they have a compass, and they have a map.

And she's very confident, so you believe her that she knows where she is. No, we're going to a graveyard. It's up here, it's a day's hike, we brought some  day packs. We're going hiking. , nothing's really happening at first, the first day's going by, and they don't, they're still  goofing around and stuff, , they meet two other guys. This is like when they're on their way there and they do another interview with these two men.

Oh, the two fishermen. Yes, two fishermen. And that, that, talk about believable. That was believable. , the one who was like, I don't believe any of this shit, but the other guy who was like, okay, you're full of shit, man Like  this is as real as it gets. Yeah The one guy was like, oh not this shit again And he just and they keep trying to fish and you can tell they're annoyed by these  These kids I thought that was true  And the guy was like, you don't know what you're dealing with, man.

You don't understand. This , is real. He's like, I saw something. And he's like, I bet you're probably drinking that day too. You can tell these are like two friends. This is Andrew and I, when we're doing something outdoors.  We're fed up with each other. That's how it sounds. It's real as fuck and like you believe everything like these are two friends Who've been doing this for forever?

 Then they get to the actual spot   where they go over a crucial part of the story.

Coffin Rock. Coffin Rock.  There were about five men, it was back in the 1800s, they were ritualistically murdered on this rock. Yes. And like  laid out in  a pentagram form or something. , their hands were tied to the others ankles or feet. And they, , and formed a solid structure, which they don't, that doesn't really tell you much, but like Andrew said, Probably a pentagram.

Probably a pentagram. Some sort of star or whatever. Um, something, something fucked up. And they had been disemboweled. And what else did they, what else happened to them? I think their, , teeth or like tongue had been taken out. Yeah, and they had indecipherable writing on their bodies. Cause the teeth will come into play.

 Someone reported that they found these bodies on this rock, and you know, it's the 1800s, you can't drive a car, you gotta go back into town and tell the local sheriff or whatever, that's gonna take some hours, maybe a day, they , go in, they come back, and the bodies are all gone.

There's not even a sign that there was. No blood. No blood. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Bodies had been physically moved by some force and, , this man is telling, , this story. He was like, over there by that rock, there was one time I was fishing and I just saw this thick mist just arise over this rock and it was, I could see it clear as day and started getting towards me and then it just  evaporated as someone walked up behind me to check on me or something like that.

Yeah. And, , I turned her back to look at it and it was completely gone. And this is the same guy that was adamant about this being real. And that kind of sets the tone again for what they are about to run into. Yeah. .    They go to that graveyard. Yeah, and they find what seven rock Cairns there Yeah, seven. Yeah seven and then she knocks one over Josh Josh knocks one over. Yes, which is crucial  And there are like, did you just knock that over? And he was like, uh, yeah, who cares?

They're like, no, no, no, no, put it, put it back, put it back together. So they rebuild that rock Karen and they go about their business. And that's when  , they camped that first night and they wake up and they hear like a, Rustling and sticks like snapping. It sounds like someone is walking around their tent and , they hear things being thrown and  it's, it's a pretty eerie feeling for me personally because I have, I'm not going to get into specific details, but I've heard things like that while you're out camping.

It makes you feel that you're not alone  in the vast wilderness. And that is a very,  ,  there's not a lot of movies that capture both the terrifying aspect of being alone with, I mean, even with you when you were with two other people, if you're not, if you're cut off from civilization, you're alone.

You're alone. And there's not, there's nothing  that can save you immediately. No. And then also doubling on top of that, the fear of like, what's out there, and there is something that's intangibly Like  tangible  throwing things and interacting with you and it wants whatever that is And it's not your head playing tricks on you because you're with two other people and you can't that can't be what it is That is what this movie does so well for me and like it does I don't know of anything else It's come about since then that really kind of tackles  that Openness and  that agoraphobic like you're in your tent You don't want to step outside your tent because out in the tent.

It's just it's just Trees that are taller than your wildest imagination and it's pitch black and you can't see anything and you don't have any idea What's 20 feet in front of you? No, that is a sinking feelings That's really hard to capture and just the claustrophobic ness of being in an open place like that It can't like the  juxtaposition of opening up your tent and then just being feeling like you are surrounded by emptiness   Just camping alone , and hearing the emptiness or hearing the rustling because there's always something out there And you can't see it used to scare the shit out of me when I was camping I don't camp as much anymore, but I used to camp all the time  And, hearing all those noises, , in the southeast too, like there's a lot.

Basically the insects are screaming at night, in pain. A lot of forests, a lot of national forests, some wooded areas that just. People die all the time. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be paranormal. It's, those woods, those types of woods, they're very  unforgiving environments. Exactly. And you can get lost really easy.

Easily, yeah. So once they start getting lost in these woods.  Because they start kind of circling they wake up the next day And, , they try to make it back to their car. They can't find it again. This is where they're like, shit, what are we doing? So let's just let it, at this point, , it's like a Sunday and they're like, shit, we gotta get back to work on Monday, back to work the next day.

Let's, , May camp, we'll get up, we'll find our car, we're much closer. So they wake up that next morning and what do they find outside? This is when they find , the three of their Three cairns. There are three stone cairns outside their tent. , you don't necessarily know if that means anything, but there are three of them and there are three Well you You know, you don't necessarily need to know if it means anything because they weren't there when we went to bed and unless one of them's making them and putting them out there, which could very well be a thing, but aren't they all, are they all in the same tent or one?

Yeah, they're all in one tent. Yeah. So, , that would be pretty hard to do without waking everybody up, especially when you're that close. , there's somebody out there with them, is, was my first guess, was like, there's, there is somebody who is doing this to them. And that's just as scary as anything else  because their first thought is, Well somebody, somebody's fucking with us out here.

Locals gotta be out here. Some rednecks or something. Yeah. And they don't want to fuck around with that either because, I mean, scary man in the woods. Yeah.  You know? That's, that's a whole other can of worms. So they, they're, they get surprised by that. They, do they take them? Or do they just leave them? No, they leave them.

They leave them, yeah. Because they quickly packed up camp. It's a little creepy. And they, they, they got out and they're like, we gotta find, the car. And at that point, that's when Heather's like, shit, I don't know where the map is.  They're wandering around, you know, kind of aimlessly but frantically, like they need to get back to their car, , we're pushing the time limit here, , and then this is when they stumble upon the things hanging in the trees.

Yeah. That's right. Yes, yes. And they had teeth in them, right? They had, I don't know if they had teeth, it was hard  to see but they had stuff in them. So the white things in that was teeth and They were, they used real, I didn't even realize that, they used real teeth from a Maryland dentist didn't they?

, to let our audience know if you haven't seen it, it's a You have seen it but  They're stick figures. They're like voodoo stick figures that are hanging from the tree. Some are large. Some are small  this is the main thing that's come out of this movie people have seen this kind of arrangement of sticks Yes, they're   in this witchcraft  like symbol You've seen it.

It's all over the poster. If you google the blair witch project right now, you will see this stick configuration And then these just happen to have teeth in them  this is when things really start to get unsettling for me as the viewer. It's just, I don't know, the lighting is perfect, like the sun's starting to go down, you are so lost, you're in the middle of fucking nowhere, and what do you run into?

I And and let's keep in mind this is in the this actually happens in october They're filming this in october and they're saying that this has happened in october. They finished filming it on halloween. Yeah Wow, I was gonna I was gonna wait. So this is the perfect in there But they literally finished filming that final scene On Halloween night, and that's just, I don't know, that's so perfect.

 Late October in Maryland. It is cold, it is, the, there, everything's dead, there's no more leaves at this point. I don't know if it's cold cold, but it's crisp. It's definitely fall weather, you can probably get down to the 40s and 30s at night.  They're definitely mentioning at night while they're camping how cold it is getting I mean early november maryland i'd imagine is it's about the same as kentucky and since that it's like that's gonna be like On a good year like 50s 40s on a bad year You  might get some snow maybe a little bit but like  it's not you're not going below 30 degrees I would say it's gonna be like it's gonna be 30 40s 38 to 50.

They weren't the most prepared Prepared Campers or hikers because they only thought they were out for a night. They didn't have any food They were ragtag and they they were wearing jeans. Yeah. Yeah well, they see , these sticks, And then, again, they can't find the fucking car, And  they're freaking out, because it's like, , Monday or whatever, and , They're already gonna be late for work.

People are gonna think, they're missing and , they can't begin that night because what else are they supposed to do? Yeah,  you can't really just call an Uber at that point. , no, you can't. The past few nights they've been  in their tent. They've been hearing things in the woods.

They've been hearing sticks snapping and people walking and thrown, stones being thrown. And it's getting progressively worse. It roars up this night after they, they see those sticks. I don't know what that triggered something, but  the next thing that happens to them is  they hear children laughing.

Yeah, and People are talking and start people start beating on their tents hitting the tent aggressively Aggressively, which a fun fact about that too is that was unscripted They did not know that was coming. The producers had snuck into the campsite. Yeah, that tracks. While they were filming and started shaking the tent.

And so you're getting a visceral reaction. A real reaction. A real reaction. So yeah, tent starts shaking violently. They run. They run out in the woods. They just start running. Like Heather's trying to put her shoes on, for God's sakes, while they're running. And she, you remember her saying something, she goes, Oh my God, what is that?

You remember that line? Yeah. You don't see what it is, But someone on the production team had worn White stockings like white long johns like a white long sleeve shirt And then it put like white like  hose or like pants like see through pants over his head So she saw something in the dark that looked probably pretty to be real.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know to get a list of response It was supposed to be a prank too. I Read that one. So they were trying to prank her and she just kind of like let it roll Yeah, and they kept it in she acted. Well,  but they always deny they run off into the woods they finally like Run into each other. I think they're running with each other But I think probably one goes off like 20 feet that way the other you know 30 feet the other and they get separated They get separate, but they come back and they reconvene and they Don't go back to sleep They just  huddle up sit on the log and wait till the sun comes up because they are fucking frightened And at this point they're at wit's end with each other.

They're blaming each other for everything Because at this point it's almost like tuesday or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, they're like you don't have your fault Where's the map like you lost the map and then what happens with that map chase because it's daytime now and now They are missing a day of work.

People are freaking out probably back home Where's the map what happens?  Mikey throws the map away. I threw it in the fucking river. I remember that Mac, I threw it in the fucking river and he's just having a manic episode. Which is also terrifying as well. To have one of your, one of your three. It is mentally unwell, unstable in the wilderness.

Fucking terrifying. Not good. Nope. Terrifying. But to be fair, , I don't think she knew what that map was doing. I don't think it helped her with her point of reference whatsoever. They kept going in circles and they, at one point,, they were hiking all day and ended up in the same camping spot, which actually happened.

They actually did that filming and so that is another visceral reaction because they thought they were supposed to get somewhere else It was the creek they came back. They came back to the same log across or whatever and that's when like everyone breaks down and they're crying and like they Apologize and they realize that they have to like rally to get there to Heather and was it Heather and Mike or Heather and the?

other guy get into this  Basically shoving match and she bites him. Heather and Mike. Yeah. Mike is the one who threw it. Yeah, and he's like pushing her He wants that he wants the video off there at this point. They're getting fed up with video because they're still videoing She's still like recording everything and at this point like that was one of the things that I thought was like Why would she be recording at this point?

I would just turn it. Yeah, I think that's I I I'm gonna quell this right now. I think as a safety mechanism and a way to like, to distance yourself from that. They make it believable. They make it believable. I don't question it. , I do think that  a lot of people, because this is, this has come up. A lot of people that I talk about with this movie like why would you keep on filming?

Wouldn't you like try to figure a way to like take the fit take it apart and make a make a fire? No, because they still have hope and they're very naive and they don't know the shit that they're in they have no clue Well how fuck they are and enough has happened paranormal wise enough weird stuff's happening Heather mentions it multiple times, like, I, , got to keep documenting this, which she's a filmmaker at heart.

They established that early on that she is all about this project more than she's about them. So she's going to live and die by this project. , it is an anchor to sanity. It is like one of the few things that's actually keeping them tethered to the real world.

That wouldn't you not would you not do that?  Of course you would you need to have something that keeps you grounded because otherwise the one thing I will say though  How did those cameras still have battery life? They talk a lot about get this out get the dad out get this this is out Like I think that they had enough battery like but they were going for battery But you swap those batteries out on those though.

You have lots of you would have lots of batteries I see that was the out of all of it You , we're led to believe as an audience that this is, that this is an hour, essentially like an hour and fifteen minutes of footage. , those cameras have enough battery life, and even if they brought backups to be able to do, and again, from, not like the, not what actually was there.

If this was eight hours of footage, they would be, they'd have like,  Two or three hours, maybe they brought backups  I do think that they would have enough battery backup But like if you're talking about them bringing those cameras out there with no backups No, they would be gonna like to be done  they set them up as so unprepared  as hikers campers And documentary people that I think I would push back and say I think they were I agree with you I think they were very unprepared hikers Backpackers, I don't think they I don't think she was an unprepared filmmaker because she is trying to I thought you use this camera Before josh didn't use this camera before Okay, we'll need to get this done.

Let's get don't forget to get the dat get the data like  I think she Frighteningly is so much more concerned about like  the film Even when it's becoming more than like a tethered to reality and it's like I have to do this right now I have to watch it that like Watching that back now is  that's kind of scary.

Cause I feel like that, I feel like people would do that nowadays with their phones and shit and out in the wilderness on Tik Tok, like, for sure. Like I have to, I have to get this, I have to get this. No, but you're like, you're, you're walking too close to that ledge. I have to get it. I plummet to your death.

Well, I mean, didn't Logan Paul have that same issue?  Should we go there?   I mean, to your point though, I can see that. That's a good point to make about her, and her preparedness for this film. But nothing else though. And that's why I think it's important that we're talking about this part, because like, I don't know if they meant to put that in there, I don't know if that was a byproduct, but , fuck, that's really scary.

That like, she  didn't really acknowledge what she was dealing with, and was more prepared to make a movie than she was to survive. But, the one thing that does survive is the film,  and the fact that they are prepared for that, or at least she was, that's the part that like, yeah, I'm like, yeah, that's just , a posthumous like, you know,  I don't know, it's just scary.

 , at that point, , they're  running around,  they are truly lost and just wandering and hoping, hoping, I think they decide to go east.

, I think it's in the morning that they wake up. And they all like Josh says he's gonna go to the bathroom or something.

No, Josh is just not there. , he just is not there. They wake up the next morning and he is not in the tent. Yeah, that's what it is. And, , Heather's like, where's Josh? Mike, Mike, where's Josh? He's like, I don't know, probably went to go like piss or whatever. They get up, they start to break down , their camp and  Josh is in his sight, they start calling for him, and he's nowhere to be found.

Mike's trying to be positive, he's like, he's probably off doing something, taking a dump, or whatever, we're gonna find him. It's always taking a dump, that's always the first excuse. Hey, where's Kyle? He's taking a dump. Massive shit. Dookie.  Um, but yeah, they break it down, and guess who doesn't show, is Josh.

Josh. And at that point they both realized that something's, something happened. Something happened, and their time is dwindling. , you can tell , they're malnourished. They're, they're getting dehydrated. They don't have shit to eat. They're, she, they say it so many times like, I'm hungry, I'm hungry, I'm cold.

I want to go home. And that, that  like.  that will to survive without the skill set to do so has got to be so sobering and just like, fuck, like we don't know what we're doing. We've got to hope for a miracle.  At this point not even starting fires at night cause they don't want to attract whatever's following them. 

And they, they make mention of that even though it doesn't do any good because they can still hear the children laughing. They can still hear the, And then this night, when Mike and Heather camp together, no Josh, what do they hear in the middle of the night? Someone's screaming for help. It sounds like Josh.

They can't, they can't make out that it's Josh. That's a good point. It sounds like Josh. It sounds, it's definitely a man screaming. It has a very bassy voice and it does sound very similar and don't they just go running for him or like  trying to go find him? Not, they don't the first night. They, they, they walk out of the tent and they scream And they don't they don't really hear any callbacks.

Josh. How was your dump?  Was it runny or solid? How big was it?  Are you done yet? Where'd you get your toilet paper? Use a pine cone, buddy.  It scoops better.   But yeah, they don't get any response. They just hear someone screaming and they eventually I guess I don't know if they fall I don't think they fall asleep and yeah, but they're back in  their tents Is that the night that she has her little soliloquy?

That's the next night because when they wake up Or when Heather wakes up, she finds a bundle of sticks in front of their tent. And  what, you want to describe what was, how that was created and what was in that?  I don't know how it was created, but , it was like a, essentially a bundle of sticks  that was tied together by a piece of flannel.

And who was wearing flannel? Josh. Josh.  She opens it up begrudgingly and very hesitantly, kind of opens it up and starts peeling back , these sticks that are loosely placed.  And then in the center, you can't see it until it's all unfolded, there's just this, another piece of flannel cloth that's just soaked.

And she said , it's covered in blood. And at that point, you, you're like, this is not gonna be good. So she opens it up, and  she gasps, pulls her hands back, and then she starts hyperventilating. ,  Because , there is some human remains, I'll just say. There's hair,  teeth, tongue, thumb.

Lips it looked like, something, there was, there was a lot of different symbolic thicket. Um, yeah, it was hear no evil, see no evil. Speak no evil. Speak no evil. No evil, so. Yeah. His ear. That's  what I picked up on because it had his ears, his tongue, and his teeth. But there was, there was like a clump of his hair.

And he had long hair, so. Yes. It's like someone just like ripped it out. Yes. And threw it in that bundle. Yeah. It's because they had the leftovers. We've got to throw something else in here. It's just, it doesn't look right. Someone grabbed his ponytail while I was taking a dump and just yanked it out. Yeah.

Yeah. That's why you don't have long hair, fellas.  That happens, and she doesn't tell Mike. No, why would no because mike has lost it mike is he threw the money through the map away He's also now the point where she's trying to talk to me. He's like I found cigarettes. I found cigarettes We're all good now, and he's rocking back and forth.

He's completely lost that stage. Yeah, poor guy They were american spirits, too. They weren't gonna like help him at all. That's just nothing for you But then this is when they have the question of Is who was more wicked  the wicked witch the west or the east and they are like the east so they just start Going east and do they find their car?

Do they no no, no It gets dark out and they start they find they camp Yeah, that's right. They camp and then they get and then they hear and then  This is where we get  the famous Scene. Yeah, they they hear Screams more screams. And this time it feels like it's, it sounds like it's a lot closer.

Yeah. It feels, like's more audible. It feels like he's like right next to you. He's saying help, he says, help me multiple times.   She has the camera and she's her, she's like, I just wanna say I'm sorry.

To Josh's mom, to Mike's mom, to my mom. , we didn't know what we were doing. She's, she's basically saying her goodbyes. Yes. In this scene. Has been parodied Across the board has been referenced and overdone if you've never seen the blair witch project You've never talked about the blair witch project.

You've never had someone talk to you about the blair witch project You still know this scene. I mean, it's the the the movie poster cover. It's the poster It's just beanie on and the lightener face in the the shot itself if you haven't seen it Which you've at least seen a photo of I guarantee it or seen it done in another movie Is  just the corner of her  right eye   it's completely dark around her.

You can't see shit around her and it's like camera light So she's kind of gray scaled out And she is just Losing it. She is crying. She is sniffling. You see snot running out of her nose and she is basically apologizing begging for Forgiveness needing help like she's at her wits end at this point because she knows the end is near Yeah, and this is symbolic of she's finally given away her art.

She wants to give that move on and be saved and then she's That's when they hear more screaming at this point. And then they, they run because they start running towards , that sound and where that sounds coming from. And then they stumble upon this.  Old ass abandoned house, which was, I guess, supposed to be the Rustin Parr's house.

That's exactly what it was supposed to be. Nice house at one point. At one point, but it is, it's dilapidated. , it's creepy.  Broken door. You have , a giant tree, , a log that's It looks dangerous in the way of not even if you've stumbled on this house in the middle of nowhere and just went through it, and it wasn't paranormal in any way, shape, or form, you're falling through the floor and like,  yeah, you're gonna get tetanus for sure, you're dying in that house.

And they start running into that house,  my tension's like Through the roof because I'm like, please don't fall through the floorboard. Like that's all I think about. Those stairs aren't sturdy goddammit.  There's asbestos on the wall and lead paint.

You're gonna roll your ankle. But what was on the walls because they run upstairs. Yeah So this is definitely Rustin Parr's house because on the wall there are children's handprints. Bloodied handprints. There's also satanic symbols on those walls, too. Oh, I didn't see that. Yeah, I'll have to go back and look at theirs.

There's a lot on those walls  And she's begging Mike, , don't go upstairs, , but they keep hearing the screams coming from upstairs. So at one point, they're kind of reluctant to go upstairs, , , they kind of got caught in the house and they're like, we shouldn't be in this house.

And then, but they're like, well, we're fucking here. We might as well go try to save our friend. If we can get one more person on our side, maybe we can figure this out. There's two people against whatever. So , they're upstairs and. Then they hear something coming from like the basement. So mike just beelines out of it.

He's like josh josh I'm coming for it. He runs down the stairs Down another flight he's in the basement and heather's right behind him And she's screaming at him, like, Mike, Mike, be careful, Mike! And he keeps on going around corners, not listening. And she's trying to stick together with him. And he goes into the basement,  and she's like, Mike?

She doesn't hear anything from Mike. Mike? Mike? She walks down,  and , it's, again, a dilapidated basement, like, dirt floors, there's no foundation. She looks over in the corner, and she sees Mike standing in that corner, facing the walls. And she yells out to him, Mike!  And then all of a sudden, something hits her, and she falls down to the ground, and you see the still frame of that camera looking in that corner,  and it cuts to black.

Yep. Yeah. And that's it. And that's the Blair Witch Project. That is. And at Asterix, that used to, there used to be not any credits there. Yeah. It used to just roll to black, and it would be like, I don't know, five minutes, six minutes, and just black. Before we get on to the next, that scene had never been changed.

but when  Hammocks, is it hammocks entertainment or whatever the production hackson? Sorry hackson when they sold it to artisan entertainment They wanted to change the ending because it left audiences a little confused And they went back and they did like four alternative endings. One of them got super gory I don't know what the other ones were But they stuck with that same ending They simply added some exposition with the townsfolk that rust and par story was never in there so they added that in So that made sense why mike was standing in the corner and it kind of tied it all together and they didn't really change much that does make a little bit more sense because You  Why would he be standing in a corner?

Why would it just you know, and I think that scene in that finale would have fallen even more flat  Because I mean I remember when I first saw  that final scene Which is also a legendary scene in itself.  I was like  it was like a wet fart in church to me like I I didn't The first go around and the second go around I know it's coming  So like the ending i'm still kind of the house is very creepy You  But like the final scene I'm not a big fan of and I don't know if it's just because I missed the boat on it because the first one just   Set the tone for me.

 I remember when I first saw it when I was the 10 year old I saw him in the corner and I was like, it's just like the guy said It's just like the guy said she's about to get tortured and then sure enough.  I think there's a lot of found footage films that kind of do it better than the Blair Witch Project  in a way But you you have to kind of take  Take what it did at the time and I'll say it influenced I will say how many people can name those other found footage exactly.

 Cannibal holocaust is a it is a very legendary film because I mean even  Blair Witch has mentioned  cannibal holocaust is like a You  Like, I think the directors and producers were inspired by that. I do think that Cannibal Holocaust is a pretty  cheap movie though, because of just like they made everything real and like there was real shit in that movie that should never have been on film.

And that's not, that's not art. That's not what art is. Yeah.  I know that we called it a found footage. I don't consider it to be found footage just because it's,  that's real life. . So as much as the Blair witch changed the game and then spawned all of these found footage, horror films, you also got to remember what came before it. I think I think it's time.  Let's start with you. Andrew.  Let's answer the question, you know now that we've Bored our audience to sleep  do you think this movie holds up?

100 percent without a doubt.  I don't want to,  , go on a limb here, but this is one of my all time favorite horror movies. I would probably put it in my top five of all time. I am. I would have it up there. It's a high praise. Yeah. I, it, it hits. He's seen six horror films, man.  Seven actually. It hits home.

 It takes you there.   I don't necessarily quantify art on how it makes you feel, but I kind of do. And this one makes you feel a certain something. Well, that's what art is. Art is just about the connection and emotions. But if something can make you feel something so strongly, it's done a good job.

And this one  always. Always stresses me out. . I wouldn't say it lights the fear of God in me, but like it makes me feel some sort of emptiness or aloneness that it's hard to really put into words and hard to explain and it does it so masterfully and I love the simplicity. I wouldn't say the simplicity, but the minimalistic nature of this and just how real it seems.

 I think paranormal entities are what really get me as a horror enthusiast. That, that's the only thing that really scares me. , something beyond the unknown. And you couple that with being in the outdoors. And like I said earlier, if you have been in a camping situation, an outdoor wilderness situation that's gone wrong, or is just uncomfortable or unsettling any way you can relate to this movie 100%.

 There are aspects of it that I despise that aren't necessarily related to the movie But what happened outside that we'll touch upon here in a bit because I think we need to do the actors some justice  But it it holds up.

Yeah, go ahead. Okay, so go ahead and hit it these actors  Didn't make much at all. Like if anything from this movie, how much did they make for the movie itself? , initially it was like 500 per week or something like that.  , I read a one report that they made 1, 000 a day over eight days. I, that's, I 000 a piece.

Yeah. I don't think that's accurate at all. Cause that would be, that's not a lot of money either. Not at all. Not at all. It's not. , for a budget of, you said it was a 700, 000 budget and they made eight grand each to be, to be lost in the woods. This is what I was trying to make a distinction about before is.

What was that production cost when, before they shot it, when they shot it, and after? Because afterwards, that stuff, that was never in play. What was in play was probably that 60, 000 to 100, 000 at first, and then you divvy that up with like, cost of camera rental, cost of paying people to, , do pre production work like scouting, getting things together for the actual film, resources, logistics, paying people on the day.

Actors and crew alike like  that's what I'm I was thinking of it. It sounds like 8, 000  Might be around like if they gave them like, , how many days did they shoot this over? Like Um, I don't know the number of it was like a week. Oh, yeah, they had 80 hours worth of footage. So Do the math there Do the math, bro.

I mean, it's not, it's, it's not that. No, it's four days. It's about four days of footage. A little less than four days of actual like start to finish day.   80 hours footage over two or three cameras. But I, we, that's, that's 10 hours a day.

I feel pretty confident they didn't make the a thou the thousand. I think it was much more bare bones because if my memory serves me correct and I read the variety article that interviewed them today, it was like 500 and then like food. Like , it was nothing. It was absolute nothing and , I can believe it.

I believe it was nothing. It's just the, it's just more so like,  Well, I guess you're gonna touch on that now. Yes, there's much more to divulge here.  They were non union actors and that's a big deal. , it's obviously an independent movie. 

Once Tom Hanks turned it down, they had to resort to the,  But they signed a non union contract that guaranteed them one percent of the net profits if the film made over 1, 000, 000  and Once it screamed at sundance.  It was a big hit people liked it immediately and this company artisan entertainment Came and bought the company that the two filmmakers who created it,  what was it again hammocks?

I keep saying it wrong. Hacks and hacks and god damn it hacks and they bought it for a They bought it for 1. 1 million.  So just over that million dollar threshold. But because artists and entertainment took over it, they weren't looking at these non union contracts. They don't give a shit about that.

Hollywood doesn't care about non union contracts. It gets lost in their accounting folders and whatnot. So they didn't see anything. They made nothing. off the bat. , did they make a percent of the 1. 1? No, they had to sue for that. Damn. So just off the 1. 1, not even what came later. Correct. , , so it's anything over a million.

So they're suing for a hundred thousand dollars basically. Correct. To split between three people. Correct. And  when that movie came out, it was a big hit. , it was pretty popular and they were making their rounds on the top. Nightly talk shows and  their billboards would be up in  Times Square and I remember reading in this article I think it was Mike's agent was like yo, man.

I saw you in Times Square. That's great. And he's like, yeah I'm not making any money off it. He's like, what do you mean? He's like I'm working at the furniture store in Westchester I didn't make any money off this and it was because of the contract they signed so they sued Artisan, who was then bought by Lionsgate, and they reached a settlement.

 They all together were given 300, 000, like 100, 000 each, over the course of years. Mind you, they were Lionsgate has already made 250 million off this and ,  they absorbed Artisan who was probably paying royalties to Haxan and they probably made like 50 million or something like that, 45 or 50 million because it was their creation, but these actors Who filmed the entire thing, who created the scenes, created the dialogue, based off of small prompts, and skeleton prompts.

They created the essence of this movie, but saw no, they didn't reap the benefits of the profits whatsoever. And, I don't know, as an actor, as someone who, , knows that you can't, can't, Get an agent without work, but you can't get work without an agent. It's it just it's all so fucked for those who create the art And it really brings things down a couple points for me Because their name image and likeness was used for years Their real names are heather freeman mike williams and joshua, whatever it is And how do you get a job if that they couldn't exactly when they went to  calls and auditions after the fact of the movie They were like I only see you as heather from blair witch is this You It's actually your real name and she was like, yeah We had to use my real name to make it seem like I actually disappeared And then at that point they were chastised for using their real names at auditions Which in imdb too, it even said that they were dead  So like because I know heather's mom received a bunch of sympathy cards  when the movie launched So, how do you go out and live your life when you are tied to this movie, but it gives you nothing It gives you absolutely nothing.

The guy who played Josh went on to have a semi successful career as a working actor, did some things.  Mike is now a guidance counselor somewhere in like New York and lives in a one bedroom apartment  with his family. , I don't know what Heather's doing, but I think she's been on, she's been on some shows.

She has? She quit. She quit. I saw her on a show recently. I don't remember. I don't know. What it was but it was so it was something  she got out of the acting game, and I think she really struggled with some   Substance abuse and depression and can you blame her? I mean not at all.

Pay your actors.  Pay your artists.  They will make you money. Pay them. That's the only black cloud that I have on this movie, honestly. That's a pretty big one, too. It is huge! It's absolutely huge.

 That's my spiel. Kyle,  what do you think? , the industry's the industry. , you're not gonna, like, there's no But  Does it hold up? Uh, yeah, no,  there's not a world in which this doesn't hold up for me like this is   but we're talking about The context of the world we live in now Yeah, I say yes because we know the time period that this takes place in  and how real that was and how  You know tethered information was to like  Archaic resources, but we would say archaic now like you've got a book and you go to a library and you check it out to get information You don't have the internet at your fingertips.

Sometimes you get like, uh Shaked down by security if you didn't have the library card Oh for sure, especially if the dvds were involved. Don't even get me started with the dvds, baby , that was the other, that was the other blockbuster. , it does hold up for me just in the sense that  I think a lot of our people who are listening are listeners.

I do believe y'all know as well that like there were, the time that this existed in was a very different time than it is now. And if you know that time and , you can remember back and put yourself back in that,  timeframe, like  you're going to be transported and it's going to be, , alarming and pretty scary.

And, you know, thank God for technology. We have now, this is, this doesn't really happen until like Chase was saying before. This doesn't happen now.  This kind of thing that we're talking about. People get lost in the woods, yes, but this story and  how scary it actually is, does not happen today.

 I'll be honest with both of you, I was planning on saying it didn't hold up,  ,  for that very reason. But it's hard to watch it  and not appreciate what it created. , it created something further than, you know, it created viral marketing. , think about how Cloverfield did the same thing that Blair Witch Project did with its viral marketing, with its slush show campaign.

It's like, when you sit down you think about it. It's like, do I think it's like a stellar classic movie? Not really. There's a lot of tension. , I think I enjoyed it more on my second viewing now than I did in my first,  , I am a horror guy. I've seen a lot of great horror films and where does this stack up?

I think I look at this film as yes, it holds up because of what it created. And the legacy that this film  Implemented on everything  and it still does  the found footage film like found footage shots Way better than a lot of the other found footage films that come out Which i'm not a big fan because most found footage films are kind of ass Yeah, I mean even even like paranormal activity is good, but I mean still cheap.

Yeah, it's still it's still kind of like hokey  it's hard to do paranormal straight face,  because a lot of people are automatically coming in with that. Well, this isn't real. This is stupid They haven't suspended their willing suspension Yeah, and it's hard to get people to do that and I feel like this film did it really well just by suspending it into a documentary a mockumentary  when it gets Really paranormally and the ending i'm still like on but There was enough creepiness and getting lost in the woods is scary.

It's fucking horrifying So and especially now  I at the time when I watched it I wasn't camping a whole lot now that i've camped and been in the wilderness  that made the middle meat of the movie A little bit more savory for me. What would make the ending better for you?  I don't know  I find it but I find it what I was gonna say is  A lot of those, those movies like that, that found footage, like Wreck.

Have you guys seen Wreck? No. So, Wreck, which some listeners may know, is a Spanish , found footage film that I think has done it the best,  maybe the best of all time. , you may know it because they remade it in the U. S. called Quarantine. Oh. Yes. Oh, Quarantine. Quarantine's great.

Very. So, so Wreck is way better, and Wreck is the original version.  But even the ending there is kind of like  Yeah,  it's hard to pull those paranormal endings.

Very hard.  I think that that's one of the reasons why people think that it's a cheap movie that doesn't do that, but I think that's because we've all been conditioned to see the monster. You have to see it in order to be afraid of it. And I love that we didn't. I'd love, that's exactly one of the reasons why I pegged this higher. 

Most other horror movies because  that's not real life folks And we don't have any explanation for the paranormal because we can't prove it .

 i'm not like bashing it by any means.  I definitely say it holds up. I think there's a legacy to this film and if you haven't seen it I think you need to see it even there's going to be some people that watch it and are like Hate it because they can't they won't be able to see it in that time period which is fine But I think it's worth watching for everybody if you're over the age of 27 28 I think you'll definitely be able to kind of relate to that time period  But it's definitely worth watching.

And it's  like one of those check Mark movies. There's a lot of movies that don't hold up, but there's still movies that have  transcended film itself and created  like stuff that you like after that. And you need to see those movies to understand where these things come from. Um, I was talking to kyle.

I recently watched the good and the bad and the ugly for the first time can't believe I missed that  I can't believe  that was one that like surpassed me but when I was watching that movie I could see So many films after it  and  I loved the movie, but even if I didn't like the movie There's a lot of respect for that and that's  where I was with this movie is like I saw so many films that Tried to imitate Do and could not do And whether this is a great movie or not, that is that's something you stand up and applaud So for me, yes, it holds up  And  it was better when it existed in its time and now that's outside of its time.

It's not as good But it's still a legacy, yeah,  But let's , do some imdb ratings. Yeah, let's do that.   Andrew, do you know the imdb? , I do, but I already have my number. I had it, my number ahead of it. So I'll go last. Okay. I want you Chase, you go, Kyle. Go. And then I'll, I'll finish it up.  Because of, its like, I don't wanna say novelty 'cause I feel like that, like ruins kind of the gravity of it.

 The fact that they did so much with so little and  it felt real because they improv the dialogue That all like coming together with the editing as well somebody to go through eight I mean 80 hours over five days.

They probably had a team to do that. I'm sure they did but it doesn't it that's To be able to come up with a cohesive vision creatively. As someone who's edited a lot, that is  painstaking. I'm thinking about editing this podcast right now and really want to slam my head into a brick wall.  But like that's, I think that just knowing how much care and attention went into this. 

And honestly, kind of what Andrew was talking about, about like the bullshit that happened afterwards.  I feel obligated to give this a higher rating. Because the actors went through so much and they're still alive. And, you know, like, I feel like a lot of people would quit life at that point because that would be overwhelming.

So I would give this movie an 8. 2  very, very, very, very high.  But again, because, because of what we're talking about and , like you said, Chase, the legacy that this spawns and how good the first one was and how irreplaceable. Unreplicatable it is I think that that's that's one of the reasons why it's gonna get one of the highest scores I will ever give which is 8.

2. Yeah, and I think that's fair. I was I would have said as a movie alone.  I Was gonna say in the six range like the early sixes, but I'll do a 7 5 because again I was in the frame of what this spawned as Again, if you go watch this movie You have to watch it with that lens to get the great the full greatness that's on display here You can't just go in going.

Oh, i'm gonna watch i've never seen this movie before I'm gonna watch a horror movie tonight Because I guarantee you you're gonna watch it. You're gonna look at all three of us and you're gonna go these guys are idiots  They're stupid this movie sucks Like but if you go in with that lens and you suspend your disbelief just enough and believe what people in the late 90s Believed that this was real  You're gonna have a good time.

You're gonna freak yourself out a little bit even if like I again I'm disconnected on the ending, but the this the woods in the earth the beginning I was believing all that and fully entranced in that movie So seven five and I don't that that may be one of my higher scores that I've given I'm surprised at that if I'm being honest I'm surprised you give it that as well because I okay  I Thought about docking it because of how they treated the actors, but kyle makes a great point I shouldn't dock their work, , they deserve that bump.

They deserve to keep that Well, maybe maybe all what I think we have 1. 8 million listeners Maybe if we get all those people to start watching the blair witch and we can start a campaign to get them. Yeah I mean Throw us a couple bucks right here on this podcast and we'll make sure it gets to Heather and Mike.

And what was the last guy? Josh. We'll just make sure it gets to Heather and Mike.  But seriously, like, this is one of the reasons why I feel like having a podcast like this would be valuable is to call out the bullshit in the industry. And one of the reasons why I know a lot of people that don't do it anymore.

Is because of the bullshit of the industry.  With that being said i'm gonna give it a 7. 8. Wow That's very i was gonna say 7. 8 and drop it to a 7. 5 but I don't want to drop it because Heather josh and mike don't deserve that and I I don't want to put it into the eights because , it's like I said, it's not something  extravagant, it's not Super super deep.

There's a lot of it is superficial, but just the way That it makes you feel it makes me feel um And it's the perfect movie to watch for halloween. It is it really is and we're celebrating halloween. Yeah, we're celebrating halloween right now It's halloween You go out and watch this movie go out like  watch it outside get lost in the woods Yeah, like outside or something like Do it, get lost in the woods at dark, you know?

Get lost in the woods, kill some children. Kill some children. Don't bring food with you and get very anal retentive over the dat. And don't forget the cigs. Don't forget the cigs. American spirits.  But yeah, sorry, 7. 8.  It holds up those are those are some of the highest scores we've given any movie So and I didn't I honestly went into this not sure how I feel.

Yeah, obviously there is a strong  Remembrance a strong nostalgic  feeling with this but  It still hits home and I watched it by myself friday night in a dark apartment and I still came away impressed  My question now is what does imdb actually say?

I think they're fucking wrong as hell 6. 5 Oh, I think it's so low. I I saw that I was like Of all the nostalgia bumps you've given to other movies. I will I fuck you. I do have something to say to this. So  I know we're on our kick for we're finishing up our halloween season. So we've watched horror films Horror films generally get the lower ratings.

They are kind of blackballed in the industry , it's a shame because there's so many great horror films out there with wonderful everything  Because a lot of people watch these movies they go in with the I'm sure it's not scary and then they don't Suspend their disbelief they go. That wasn't scary at all They set themselves up for failure and they said they said in the horror so horror is the hardest thing to film shoot write and execute because  There's just a lot of bad horror out there There really is and there's and and people go in to watch a horror movie instead of finding because horror You And I told someone this today Horror is  the realest form of hollywood I believe because it is telling the stories of the most  underutilized downtrodden people in the most metaphorical way and people don't that people think horror is  lowbrow and they think it is as gory as base and it's as base as what it is and so they're like i just want to be scared and they're not scared but they're missing the overtones they're missing the art of horror horror is telling those stories from the common man that has to go through it i mean  think about race And, you know, homophobic, you know, relate, like, stuff like that, even like, homelessness is all dictated into horror, and these stories from these people, that's where it comes from, and people miss that, and then  they shit on these horror films because they don't know what they're watching.

 If you're not going to buy into it and you just want to be scared because a face pops out at you.

Then fuck right off. 

 Since it is Halloween, I do want to ask one question. And we'll make this quick because I know we're running out of time and patience here.  It could be a movie, it could be a game, it could be a TV show, it could be music.  Andrew, when you were a child, what scared you the most?

Headless horseman. Headless Horseman, gotcha. Yeah, Ichabod Crane and Headless Horseman. Gotcha. Sleepy Hollow. Okay. Fucking love that, but it scared me. Kyle.,  The Amityville horror was like, , that was it.

Like that, the idea of  a demon that would like, that would kill you and you can't do anything to it. That was, that scared the shit out of me. If I increased my age, so like, say like 10 or 11, it would be different, but I think that's a good one.  As a teenager, Alien scared me the most. So, um, mine is, as a kid I was scarred by Resident Evil 2.

Watching my brother play. That scared the shit out of me.   And that's what I'll always think about when we roll through October. But  Thank you for rolling through October with us as we rolled through your mind, pulled the Blair Witch Project out of your little nightmares, found out it holds up.

You should go back and watch it. Watch it tonight. Watch it in the woods. Get lost. Kill some children. Whatever it may take from you. Please don't kill some children. That's a felony. . Among other things. Among other things. Please go watch it. Have a safe, lovely Halloween and we'll see you this Thanksgiving.

Have a great rest of your day.